The Keogh thing

[mac]

In this whole thing I am thinking the only people from Company C that made it back to Calhoun would be those that were mounted. This would change the timeline for Keogh and others to have finished in that position.
I feel the final collapse was quick and the result of assaults from multiple directions with the main escape corridor along the ridge. So I might expect bunching in the Keogh sector.
Cheers

[quincannon]

The problem Mac is that I don't believe we know that. So while only the mounted remnants seem probable, we have no way to determine if they were all mounted, some were mounted, none were mounted, therefore I think we must make the assumption that none were to determine elapsed time. Strictly a safe side assumption I think. Don't believe we are talking any more of a delta that five minutes maximum, but five minutes is a long time.

I think Keogh probably had as many as eighty men grouped around him in what became the Keogh sector. Some escaped, some attempted to escape, others died in place. The point is regardless of the momentum the Indians may have gained overrunning Company C then Company L, it would still take a fair amount of time to overrun and break up those 75 to 80 people Keogh had at the last.

Could be wrong about that 75 to 80 number, but I am counting on human instinct to seek the first place of safety (Company I) for those coming back from Calhoun Hill and the Company C affair.

[mac]

Agreed QC
What is in my head is the sequence of events and the grouping of bodies. I see two groups either side of "Wagner's gap". We know CH charged through the gap with his mates (west to east) then some time after charged back again (east to west) with lots more mates. C had already been routed and I was beginning to falter. The first charge would get Keogh's attention and draw him to the swale. Perhaps he was just in time for the second (and perhaps fatal) assault in numbers from the east. Still working it through my head.
Back to the salt mine now.
Cheers

[yanmacca]

Good morning Mac, I would think that the amount of C company men that made it to Calhoun hill would down to the amount of cover fire provided by L company, it wouldn’t surprize me that their carbine fire slowed down or even made the pursuers go to ground for a limited time, maybe just long enough for some to make it to the hill position. But this shift of fire gave the warriors in deep coulee the chance to overrun this position from another direction and the whole place collapsed.

Good luck at Edgbaston.

Yan.

[mac]

Thanks for the good wishes Ian. Let's just hope for some exciting cricket.
As you point out they had reached a point where there were threats from multiple directions and too few men to keep the warriors at a distance.
There are many possibilities as to why Keogh is where he is.
Cheers

[yanmacca]

I suppose that Keogh's final resting place was down to the notion that this was the only place that was still standing and so was the main refuge area for any survivors, I company could have been still intact and acted as a focal point, so if Keogh received his wound out on battle ridge then this would be the natural place to take him.

Yan.

[quincannon]

My money is on Keogh being just about where he was found throughout most of this action, and that is not the place he should have been. There are just too many disconnects, and it is apparent at least to me he did not have positive control of either Company L or Company C. The most obvious reason is simply that he was not there.

Mac: I hope you will give us a complete after action report following your September visit. I believe you will see things on the ground that you cannot possibly fully appreciate from a map or photos.

[yanmacca]

Jul 29, 2015 10:37:21 GMT mac said:

Thanks for the good wishes Ian. Let's just hope for some exciting cricket.

Mac gone are the days of Geoff Boycott and his legendary "dead bat" every seems to go for their shots more, a bad start for the Aussies I am afraid.

Yan. 

[mac]

Jul 29, 2015 18:19:36 GMT yanmacca said:

Jul 29, 2015 10:37:21 GMT mac said:

Thanks for the good wishes Ian. Let's just hope for some exciting cricket.

Mac gone are the days of Geoff Boycott and his legendary "dead bat" every seems to go for their shots more, a bad start for the Aussies I am afraid.

Yan. 

It was certainly exciting Ian. More for you than me   .

[mac]

QC
Really looking forward to September.
I am sure that the reality will be different to maps and pictures. I am riding the field with the Realbirds as well as my own walking exploration. Riding should give a good perspective.
Also anticipating fun at Mckenzie's!
Cheers

[quincannon]

Anticipate the Prime Rib, although the Pork Chops are excellent as well. Did I tell you it is in the basement of the Alamo (Building). Don't want you to expect being under siege during dinner.

[mac]

If I were gonig to be under siege, in the basement eating prime rib sounds like my first choice for my assignment!
Later.
Cheers

[Beth]

You guys are making me soooo jealous.

Beth

[mac]

Jul 29, 2015 12:27:11 GMT quincannon said:

My money is on Keogh being just about where he was found throughout most of this action, and that is not the place he should have been. There are just too many disconnects, and it is apparent at least to me he did not have positive control of either Company L or Company C. The most obvious reason is simply that he was not there.

One possibility is that Keogh was wounded very early in the action and simply put there in a place of some safety. This may account for the issues in this part of the battlefield.
Plenty of options for arterial bleeding in a leg wound, so who knows his condition?
Cheers

[Beth]

You know that you can almost find anything on the 'net? You don't last long with arterial bleeding, so if Keogh was that severely injured, I would bet he was laying pretty close to where he fell.

Beth