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Post by yanmacca on Jan 23, 2017 11:01:28 GMT
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
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Post by azranger on Jan 23, 2017 13:52:32 GMT
Ford D [including the old river course] ;
Great job Ian. If Kellogg's body used to be near the old entrance it would have been relatively close to the river's end. I wonder were Squaw Creek used to run (Though I believe the name might have been changed). I came across an account that stated the women and children were in that area and wondered if it was the same creek we have found references to in the Ford D area. The Kellogg marker in the photo that Donahue presented is along the old entrance road and not far from the highlighted old river channel as Ian presented. That old road is still quite visible and goes into the current NPS housing area where Tom and I visited.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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azranger
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Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Jan 23, 2017 13:59:17 GMT
Beth have a look at this map, it shows how close you were with your analysis as the map says Sq**w chasing creek instead of Sq**w creek and see how close it is to the river and the Kellogg position; Ian
That map has the Kellogg marker in the wrong location I believe. I think that was addressed on another map. The Kellogg marker was still in its location when the new entrance road was opened. The problem is the marker was on private property and the land was no longer be used as the entrance road. Some time after the grand opening of the new entrance the marker was removed.
Donahue got permission to metal detect the area but could not find anything.
Regards
Steve
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azranger
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Post by azranger on Jan 23, 2017 14:07:29 GMT
I am confused because I don't think that position for Kellogg's body is the same as the one Steve mentions being visible in an old picture near the old entrance. I really need to get this clarified in my head. I thought this was the old entrance road (red) and the blue is possible area of Kellogg's body. Coming from behind on catching up on posts. You are correct Beth. That light circle is in the area of the photographed marker. I think if you combine Ian's highlighted old river channel you can see the problem. If someone is trying to place the marker on a map based upon current channels then the photographed marker is to far from the river.
The McElfresh map was made in 1996 I believe.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Jan 23, 2017 14:19:50 GMT
I think Tom posted Donahue's map of the movement toward Ford Ds. Maybe he can put it up here.
I think it was the newspaper that placed the Kellogg marker and not the military.
Beth
On your map move that blue to the ridge further north and you will have at least part of the route in my opinion. That ridge can be followed back to LSH along BRE. There is an artifact site that we walked to with the Friends tour.
Regards
Steve
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jan 23, 2017 14:41:41 GMT
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 23, 2017 15:23:49 GMT
Steve, so the dry river channel you said I posted, is it on the map at the top of this page? Its just that I have done a few maps trying to highlight Squaw Creek, and I just need to know if you meant my last effort.
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Post by Beth on Jan 23, 2017 18:41:18 GMT
I am confused because I don't think that position for Kellogg's body is the same as the one Steve mentions being visible in an old picture near the old entrance. I really need to get this clarified in my head. I thought this was the old entrance road (red) and the blue is possible area of Kellogg's body. Coming from behind on catching up on posts. You are correct Beth. That light circle is in the area of the photographed marker. I think if you combine Ian's highlighted old river channel you can see the problem. If someone is trying to place the marker on a map based upon current channels then the photographed marker is to far from the river.
The McElfresh map was made in 1996 I believe.
Regards
AZ Ranger
I think the problem with the McElfresh map it that it is trying to fit an older version of the battle. There have been a number of changes on how the battle is viewed in the last 20 years.
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Post by dgfred on Jan 23, 2017 20:56:06 GMT
Here are a few marker maps [these are not my work]; Excellent. I understand why you can get so many different theories of what happened and in what sequence. Much thanks. That helps to show how powerful/quick the Warriors attack must have been.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 23, 2017 20:58:27 GMT
Your welcome Greg, glad to have been of help.
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Post by Beth on Jan 23, 2017 23:12:54 GMT
Ian, on your map greatsiouxwar1876.proboards.com/post/10410/thread I honestly can't tell if that is a creek, a drainage ditch, or an irrigation canal. It's the hard thing about trying to make out details that would be obvious if you saw them in person but hard from a picture. I'm leaning more towards creek from when I look at it in street view but it's not wide or deep enough to handle the type of flow that the area I outlined as Squaw Creek I suspect that there is a slight rise between the two creeks and the smaller is a separate creek bed draining a much smaller area and would only have water in it during the wettest times. If you trace back Squaw Creek you can see it actually drains a much bigger area. This is totally off topic but I wonder what they grow there because I don't see the type of irrigation I would expect. I see some irrigated fields up by Hardin but there is a reservoir and dam on the Bighorn River to feed that and I can see the canals. It looks like along the LBH they stick to hay. It will be interesting to see the area personally.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 24, 2017 12:07:54 GMT
Beth, in parts in looks man made and in others simply a natural drainage to the LBR, but if it is not Squaw Creek, then we better give it a name, so how about Jonathan?
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Post by Beth on Jan 24, 2017 20:23:44 GMT
I found this map from 1932 and found it intersting. It shows that it is possible it might be what was Onion Creek before the highway went in. I am confused on whether the more northern Creek type feature is just unnamed or if the arrow labeled ditch is referring to it. I don't know why a ditch would be so wiggly. If you zoom out on the website you can see other ditches are straighter. What it does show is that both the railroad and the highway significantly changed the landscape so it's hard to say where creeks that weren't recorded at the time ran. Attachments:
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 24, 2017 20:40:04 GMT
Medicine tail creek, wow that's a new one.
So nobody has watched the TV detective series called "Jonathan Creek" then, its been on for years over here.
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Post by Beth on Jan 25, 2017 5:48:34 GMT
Medicine tail creek, wow that's a new one. So nobody has watched the TV detective series called "Jonathan Creek" then, its been on for years over here. I don't believe that it's every been shown here Ian. We don't get every show on UK TV however I do I seem to recall hearing my niece mentioning it a couple times when she was going to school in London though.
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