Defense

[yanmacca]

Both the Bushes served their country [pilots I think], which in my book deserves a lot of respect

[quincannon]

Both were. The father flew a TBM off of USS San Jacinto. The son an F106 for the Texas Air Guard.

[deadwoodgultch]

We have gone far afield from Tactical Puncher and Counter Puncher! I guess I got as much from that as I should have expected!

Regards,
Tom

[Beth]

Back to Custer, I think you guys are overlooking a totally different career path that he could have taken after 1876-the growing Wild West tours and lectures. Unfortunately it is impossible to tell if there hadn't been BLBH if there would have been the market that Buffalo Bill was able to tap into. I am sure that there would have been some though and I believe that it would have been a life that would have appealed to Custer and his wife. He would have also been able to incorporate his family and clan of friends.

The last quarter of the 19th century was a time of rapid change and when you have rapid change people want to look back to what they think of as a simpler time.

[quincannon]

I do not think that the longing to reach back is limited to the last quarter of the 19th century. It is a constant and we see it in our time, just as strong and just as vibrant a feeling as it obviously was then.

Come January I will have been on this earth three quarters of a century, and in that time I have seen the same thing in effect in people from four generations. We seek a time when we were young and vibrant, where the cares of the world had not yet worn us down, where the expectations of life were before us and not something we view through the rear view mirror.

I do not believe Custer was any different. I don't believe Buffalo Bill was any different. In fact I suspect all the major players of that time were possessed by those same feelings.

Custer reached the apex of his life at the age of twenty three. After that it never got better. It only got worse. He did not know how to handle fame when he had it. He sought to recapture fame all of his remaining years. His dreams of renewed grandeur were the dreams that came more out of a pipe, than those having any hope of reality. In the end he was nothing more that a run of the mill U S Army LTC on some godforsaken post in North Dakota, whose ego had to be constantly reinforced by being referred to as general, and carrying around with him that stupid unauthorized flag wherever he roamed.

One thing I have learned in life that we are what we are, not what we were, or what we want to be. Maybe Custer did not live long enough to learn one of life's most valuable lessons.

[mac]

May 17, 2017 17:57:11 GMT benteen said:

May 16, 2017 22:19:08 GMT mac said:

Was there the possibility of communication between Custer and Benteen to form any plan or timing to coordinate a valley entry?
Cheers

Mac,

Good ideas on your part, however if Custer was going to use Martini to carry the message than I think communication is a mute point. Remember Lt Cook felt he had to write a note, he felt Martini wasnt even able to carry a simple message. Now we are talking about carrying a tactical message. Benteen is bound to ask for the current status, what is going on etc and Martini would not be able to tell him. 

When Martini took his message to Benteen, Benteen asked him about the situation and Martini gave him the exact opposite info.

Just because someone does not have a grasp of the English language does not make them a bad person or bad soldier, just a lousy messenger  

Be Well
Dan

Very true Dan!
I had in mind tat as this is a "what if" Custer might send a better messenger with a better command of the situation. Let me suggest Sharrow perhaps.
Maybe then they could act in concert to enter the valley...if time permits.
Cheers
I do not know about Custer as POTUS but I do know that wise leaders understand when to say nothing. Custer ...hmmm...don't know. 

[Beth]

I am sorry I wasn't clear, I wasn't just referring to the 19th Century. We can see it all through history. History has cycles where countries go from a global view to national view and then back again. We seem to take two steps forward, scare ourselves and take a step back.

I have always kind of felt sorry for Custer because he was so young when he reached his apex--I've always thought of him as the high school sport star who never quite made it beyond that point. Or perhaps as much as I hate to make the comparison of a teen rock sensation who never manages to have a career past the age of twenty.

Of course if it hadn't been for the CW, I suspect that Custer wouldn't have had much of a career at all.

[dave]

Beth
The High School analogy fits GAC very well. His high point in life was when he was the dashing boy general with the adorable child bride. After the ACW neither one aged well on the frontier especially Libbie as all the photos of her attested too.
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

It sort of like Pat Boone in his 80's still wearing white buck shoes.

Of course I still have my white sport coat with a pink carnation that I keep in a hermetically sealed plastic bag in case some filly wants to ask me to the junior prom, and the obligatory Rose and a Baby Ruth for when I mess up. But that's another story.

For you folks beyond the borders of these United States - Don't Ask. I probably could not remember anyway.

[dave]

QC
Where were you the day the music died? I was in my 5th grade class listening to Linda W crying about Buddy Holly's death. The only reason it dented my thick skull was I was in love with Linda and her older sister played all the records.
Regards
Dave

[yanmacca]

You people on this board know Custer's civil war record better than me, now he did partake in quite a few battles, so did he ever counter punch during any of these battles?

[BrevetorCoffin]

May 18, 2017 18:40:14 GMT yanmacca said:

Both the Bushes served their country [pilots I think], which in my book deserves a lot of respect

HW flew TBF Avengers in WWII. W flew wirh the Texas Air National Guard, I believe in the 80's. He had a much more checkered service history than his father, but yes he did serve.

Best,

David

[quincannon]

Dave: A junior in high school. My focus at the time was trying to find some bit of acceptance among strangers in a brand new school. Only had one date in all of my high school years and that was for the senior prom.

Ian: A real counterpunch is when you purposely let the enemy attack overextend itself, then strike.

A WHIFF example. At Chancellorsville Jackson's attack petered out after a mile and a half or so. His corps was completely disorganized in the fighting with XI Corps. Had Hooker had a corps back there waiting for that culminating point in Jackson's attack, then struck, Hooker would have destroyed II Corps, by counterpunch.

Custer spent his entire ACW career doing what others told him to do. His name was made by flamboyance, not skill. He could fight, but never thought all that much about how to fight.

So my answer would be no.

A TBF and a TBM are the same aircraft differing only in who manufactured them The M's were manufactured by a division of General Motors called Eastern Aircraft. Most of the F's were gone by 44-45.

[quincannon]

Looking at the battle flow of LBH I do not see where the whole issue of counterpunch comes into play on either side.

If anyone differs from that view, what, where, and when do you see what I apparently do not?

[Beth]

May 19, 2017 2:14:10 GMT dave said:

Beth
The High School analogy fits GAC very well. His high point in life was when he was the dashing boy general with the adorable child bride. After the ACW neither one aged well on the frontier especially Libbie as all the photos of her attested too.
Regards
Dave

One correction-Libbie was not a child bride.  She was nearly 22 when they married which means for the time she was starting to face old maid status.  Perhaps that too was a factor for Judge Bacon to finally approve of the marriage.