|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 10, 2016 11:21:16 GMT
Chuck,
In moving north he very well could have moved as you suggest, however, on what he considered the way back he may have taken a shorter route as there was no need to mask movements while trying to return to some area where he might get support from the rest of the command.
Let me ask you about one scenario. I am repulsed at Ford D, I wheel my command about in retreat. I reform the command in order on cemetery ridge. I send three companies ahead to open a way through and keep it open, while I with two companies, give prompt and required aid to the wounded and then move out. Alas the way can't be opened and I have enemies snapping at my heels, I must move out, but am soon surrounded, fixed, and whacked. Ok that was a very short version, but it is a version that makes Custer look better than some others.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2016 13:09:41 GMT
Undoubtedly a shorter route back
Actually it is a variation of Trevilion Station.
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 10, 2016 13:21:08 GMT
I did not attend the Friends presentation, I am sure Steve could add more.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jul 10, 2016 13:34:58 GMT
It makes sense to fall back in bounds and using features like cemetery hill and Calhoun hill as stepping stones would allow them to fall back in good order and still inflict casualties on the enemy.
If this was the case then the third stone would have been the ridge complex over the other side of deep coulee.
So these three stepping stones do have an Achilles heel and that is the various drainage ravines that interject themselves roughly in a east to west direction. These ravines or coulees allowed their enemy to invert themselves into the advance and this is what Crazy Horse could have done, but having said that the lead units would have blunted by the warriors who had already occupied deep coulee and held the high ground known as greasy grass hill.
|
|
azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
|
Post by azranger on Jul 11, 2016 12:48:41 GMT
I suppose you Ian, and all here realize that this line of inquiry is heresy to those that have so much ink and effort invested in their concrete block opinions. We can afford to be heretics because we have no equity invested, that is liable to be thrown in our faces. In my way of thinking, no book to defend, brings about honest open discussion, a type of free thinking that has been the hallmark of this board since its founding a year ago (this month). We may be all wrong in the end, and convention may prevail, but the study of LBH is a journey not a destination, and those who write books have reached a place they consider a destination, and their vehicle stopped, never to move again. Steve: Who wrote the final chapter of Harper's book? Are you saying that the final chapter reverses course from what came before, or just that it was incomplete as to its conclusions? The final chapter was written by Gordon Richards and it is not Gordie's. The good thing is that Gordie laid out in the previous chapters what he believed occurred. The writing style is different and its Richard's theory.
It clearly states it in book. Gordie believed the flow was north to south.
Regards
Steve
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jul 11, 2016 12:51:26 GMT
Steve have you heard anything about the health of Gordon Richards?
|
|
azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
|
Post by azranger on Jul 11, 2016 13:06:49 GMT
The Friends field trip always leaves you with more questions and thoughts. It is a presentation of new findings along with previous maps and drawings.
I think the point of the field trip is to present the potential for different conclusions. Such as movement from the Ford D area back to the south. What we don't get is what Donahue will conclude in his next book. That's fine with me since I like to draw my own conclusions.
Regards
Steve
|
|
azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
|
Post by azranger on Jul 11, 2016 13:11:18 GMT
Steve have you heard anything about the health of Gordon Richards? Probably not any more than you have heard. My contacts are Tori Harper and Monte Acres. Primarily Tori. I have had some discussions with both in 2014 and continue with Tori. I think the inside stuff should remain there and it really doesn't add to a clearer picture of how a book gets published.
Regards
Steve
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 13, 2016 13:08:13 GMT
The Friends field trip always leaves you with more questions and thoughts. It is a presentation of new findings along with previous maps and drawings.
I think the point of the field trip is to present the potential for different conclusions. Such as movement from the Ford D area back to the south. What we don't get is what Donahue will conclude in his next book. That's fine with me since I like to draw my own conclusions.
Regards
Steve I was looking for something else and found this. Steve has already explained this. This was the notice.
SOLD OUT] Friday evening, the 24th, Friends annual fundraiser field trip [SOLD OUT]
This year, we will have an incredible field trip led by Park Ranger and Battle Historian extraordinaire Mike Donahue. Thanks to permission from the Custer Battlefield Preservation Committee, we venture into terrain most of us have only observed from a distance: "Following Custer's Left Wing Along the Custer Ridge Extension: Ford D Exit One Mile Ahead" promises to surpass last year’s walk along Sharpshooters Ridge with Donahue.
Did the left wing follow this ridge beyond Last Stand Hill? If so, what was Custer’s objective? Was he hoping to capture the noncombatants, or were there other reasons? Donahue will share his theories to answer these questions and more
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jul 13, 2016 13:24:41 GMT
Tom/Steve, how long do you reckon it would take for a battalion to ride this supposed route in column from Calhoun hill to ford D and back, why I ask is that if you were in the midst of winning a battle in which a part of your force was already committed (Reno), would you leave the rump of your command behind and take time out to make this journey too and back just to have a look?
I have never felt comfortable with the prospect of Custer doing this scout, as I think it had gone past the point of that. I have read a few accounts by people on the net and in books that some of Custer's men were at MTF, but if this was the case and they have data that the grey horse troop was briefly in this location, then the only reason I can come up with is that this mission was undertook by E Company whilst the column was moving to battle ridge and was to see if the Reno attack was having the desired effect or to draw even more warriors towards this location, either to help Reno or draw any fighting men away from the non-coms.
Once they had made their presence felt they later rejoined the column or even stopped on cemetery hill to support the fall back from ford D.
(Nothing like a little speculation on a Wednesday afternoon)
|
|
azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
|
Post by azranger on Jul 13, 2016 13:57:50 GMT
Below is Benteen's map. Take a look at the cemetery area and you see line or trail on it.
Also look at "M" first in the key to the right and then its location on the map. In "H" Benteen notes 28 bodies which is Deep Ravine.
"M" is further north on his map.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jul 13, 2016 14:12:24 GMT
Is that the lower letter M?
There are two letters what look like rather posh versions of that letter, the top one reads;
Ravine ? ? containing 30 bodies which men not found or? buried?
The one below is too sketchie to make out a proper sentence.
I can see the trail though.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jul 13, 2016 14:42:57 GMT
For all the Custer fanboys and Reno and Benteen knockers, if you think that Reno's halt and breakout and the events that unfolded on Reno hill after Weir left, are disgraceful acts in a war zone, then so can be said that Custer went walkies while Reno fought in the valley.
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 13, 2016 15:31:15 GMT
We could say that even without this, I think. Recon while a battle is raging, can be a dangerous endeavor.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jul 13, 2016 15:34:25 GMT
It could be Tom, as here is the last thing that Custer saw;
|
|