Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 18:13:23 GMT
Well, as an intellectual excursion, I still think about what could have happened. It is not very hard to think that Grant would have refused to let Custer be reinstated as commander of the 7th. Reno would have made different mistakes this time.
Reno was already effectively in command while Custer was gone. I imagine he was fully occupied in just trying to get the Regiment assembled and ready to go. As an aside, at Fort Riley after the Division was alerted for Desert Storm, except for new equipment training, all training effectively stopped and the concentration was to get the vehicles painted, the selected new equipment fielded. The only training I did was qualifying with the M9 9mm Pistol and getting my protective mask fitted. I don't think preparations would have been any different.
So Terry had three choices: Keep Reno in command, get Sturgis, or choose someone else. But he would still go as the expedition commander.
With Reno in command, history would probably unfold in the same way up to the point of when Terry ordered him to take his first reconnaissance patrol out. We'll say Reno takes the patrol out and does the same thing and Terry makes the same subsequent decision to split his force.
I think, in spite of his previous excursion, this time he would exercise more caution and follow his orders, so Reynolds is dispatched down Tullock's Creek and Reno's continues down the Rosebud and does not turn for the Crows Nest. He does come across the wreckage of Crook's battle. Here's a big decision point.
Does he follow Crook's Trail? (No. clearly it leads out of the battle area.)
Does he follow the Indian's trail? Maybe. However, there is no way to communicate that to Terry and they will not link up, so I think not.
I should think he would dispatch another messenger to Terry to let him know, although it would be too late for any action.
So, he continues with his orders and moves to the headwaters of the LBH, then turns North. Now, instead of entering the battle area from the East, he enters from the South and along the LBH.
Meanwhile what are the Indians are doing?
Do they sit on the LBH? They've already been there a couple of days and will need to move.
Let's say they move? Do they break up or not?
If they go south, they are headed for Crook. I don't think they want to go there. But if they do go down the LBH, then they run into Reno and have a meeting engagement. I don't think that will go well for the 7th. IT will be Reno's last stand.
IF they stay still, the Reno comes up, only this time with the whole Regiment, probably without surprise, and he fights another meeting engagement. Most likely it would still be Reno's last stand, but maybe Terry would have done for Reno what Custer did, and Reno could get a breathing space to reorganize and defend. Not sure what would happen to Terry. Perhaps the Indians would run right away.
At any rate, there is likely no way any action could have been coordinated between Reno (or anyone commanding the 7th) and Terry, so it would have been two individual fights.
If they go North, they are headed for Terry. I think they know they are coming down the Yellowstone toward them. Again, but if they do, Terry is even weaker than the 7th, much less Crook, so then it is Terry's last stand, or they might slip past him and head further North.
They can go East and risk engaging with the Crow. I don't know if the Crow were actively wandering around looking for them. If they go west, they likely avoid both Reno and Terry and are able to break free and wander about while the pony soldiers chase them endlessly as usual. Maybe in the winter the US Army is able to find and attack them as they did after the LBH.
The end historical result would probably be the same with the Indians being driven to the Reservation in 12 - 18 months, but perhaps without the losses incurred by history. Perhaps Army would have caught isolated tribes and forced them back individually. Once broken up, the Sioux would not likely have massed again.
Would sabers have made a difference? Maybe a little. They probably weren't trained with them very well, but they could have made some difference when combat went to hand and hand. The 24th behind its barricades killed more Zulu with the bayonet than they did with bullets.
Shovels? Dunno. At least if they had several shovels per troop instead of less than 10 (?) for the Regiment, it may have made a different.
Bayonets of course were out of the question.
Reno was already effectively in command while Custer was gone. I imagine he was fully occupied in just trying to get the Regiment assembled and ready to go. As an aside, at Fort Riley after the Division was alerted for Desert Storm, except for new equipment training, all training effectively stopped and the concentration was to get the vehicles painted, the selected new equipment fielded. The only training I did was qualifying with the M9 9mm Pistol and getting my protective mask fitted. I don't think preparations would have been any different.
So Terry had three choices: Keep Reno in command, get Sturgis, or choose someone else. But he would still go as the expedition commander.
With Reno in command, history would probably unfold in the same way up to the point of when Terry ordered him to take his first reconnaissance patrol out. We'll say Reno takes the patrol out and does the same thing and Terry makes the same subsequent decision to split his force.
I think, in spite of his previous excursion, this time he would exercise more caution and follow his orders, so Reynolds is dispatched down Tullock's Creek and Reno's continues down the Rosebud and does not turn for the Crows Nest. He does come across the wreckage of Crook's battle. Here's a big decision point.
Does he follow Crook's Trail? (No. clearly it leads out of the battle area.)
Does he follow the Indian's trail? Maybe. However, there is no way to communicate that to Terry and they will not link up, so I think not.
I should think he would dispatch another messenger to Terry to let him know, although it would be too late for any action.
So, he continues with his orders and moves to the headwaters of the LBH, then turns North. Now, instead of entering the battle area from the East, he enters from the South and along the LBH.
Meanwhile what are the Indians are doing?
Do they sit on the LBH? They've already been there a couple of days and will need to move.
Let's say they move? Do they break up or not?
If they go south, they are headed for Crook. I don't think they want to go there. But if they do go down the LBH, then they run into Reno and have a meeting engagement. I don't think that will go well for the 7th. IT will be Reno's last stand.
IF they stay still, the Reno comes up, only this time with the whole Regiment, probably without surprise, and he fights another meeting engagement. Most likely it would still be Reno's last stand, but maybe Terry would have done for Reno what Custer did, and Reno could get a breathing space to reorganize and defend. Not sure what would happen to Terry. Perhaps the Indians would run right away.
At any rate, there is likely no way any action could have been coordinated between Reno (or anyone commanding the 7th) and Terry, so it would have been two individual fights.
If they go North, they are headed for Terry. I think they know they are coming down the Yellowstone toward them. Again, but if they do, Terry is even weaker than the 7th, much less Crook, so then it is Terry's last stand, or they might slip past him and head further North.
They can go East and risk engaging with the Crow. I don't know if the Crow were actively wandering around looking for them. If they go west, they likely avoid both Reno and Terry and are able to break free and wander about while the pony soldiers chase them endlessly as usual. Maybe in the winter the US Army is able to find and attack them as they did after the LBH.
The end historical result would probably be the same with the Indians being driven to the Reservation in 12 - 18 months, but perhaps without the losses incurred by history. Perhaps Army would have caught isolated tribes and forced them back individually. Once broken up, the Sioux would not likely have massed again.
Would sabers have made a difference? Maybe a little. They probably weren't trained with them very well, but they could have made some difference when combat went to hand and hand. The 24th behind its barricades killed more Zulu with the bayonet than they did with bullets.
Shovels? Dunno. At least if they had several shovels per troop instead of less than 10 (?) for the Regiment, it may have made a different.
Bayonets of course were out of the question.