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Post by miker on Feb 24, 2024 4:09:17 GMT
As a wild guess: because its not there.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 24, 2024 4:25:03 GMT
In this day and age museum collections are all on a computer. A few simple key strokes should provide a yes or no answer I would think. That is why I do not understand why you did not have an answer in minutes if not seconds.
No one expects everyone to know everything. What I expect is for someone who may not know this or that, to know where to find the answer to this or that.
I don't think it is there either Mike. I don't believe it even exists. More than likely the German commander read it, crumpled it up and threw it away once he understood the meaning. In this instance though the answer isquite simple - Yes, we have it. No, someone else has it. No, we do not know what happened to it. Any of the three would satisfy the inquiry.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 24, 2024 11:12:56 GMT
Because of the problems reported on your borders, I was trying to figure out why Tx seems to be portrayed by those who RUN it, as a disaster zone rapidly deep sixing off the cliffs. I was directed (by AI type logicals) to DTIC which is a remarkable....... repository. It really rather is and thus, I thought, this looks promising - De-controlled 05 May 2022 - A Brief History of Russian and Soviet Expansion Toward the South - and so it proved to be. I quote, from the Executive summary ' One or the most striking features of Russian history is its prodigious territorial growth over the last five or six centuries (see maps pages x and xi). In the 1400's, the Grand Principality of Moscovy covered an area to about 300 mi1es east and 400 miles north of present-day Moscow. It lay at the center of a vast, open plain, nowhere above 1500 feet in elevation. While no natural boundaries protected it, none hindered it, and it expanded gradually and unevenly over six centuries to its present-day size, the largest territory in the world under one central government. What makes the USSR an empire • today, is the aggrandizement and unification of many, varying cultures and peoples having absolutely no say or influence over who their leader is shagging. As expected, ex-Soviet era influencers are stealing the water. The moral here, should be obvious to those who have ever used a library. I have had some wonderful times in libraries and made remarkable discoveries. Some of you, maybe one, maybe none, will know. Lose your heart to a librarian.................
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Post by herosrest on Feb 24, 2024 11:26:58 GMT
You have reached an outdated URL for the U.S. Military Academy Library Digital Commons. The new URL is: digitalcommons.westpoint.edu. Please change your bookmarks as this redirect will no longer work after December 31, 2023. This page will automatically redirect to the new site after ten seconds. USMA Athena is a secure digital service managed by the United States Military Academy Library to make the work of USMA scholars freely available, while also ensuring these resources are organized to preserve the legacy of USMA scholarship. The mission of USMA Athena is to showcase the academic impact and intellectual capital that has become synonymous with the celebrated heritage of educational prowess attributed to the Long Gray Line. Scholarship submitted to USMA Athena benefits from added visibility and discoverability via Google Scholar in addition to the use of persistent URLs that will provide enduring access to the work over time. Instructions for submitting content - These instructions are for faculty staff, and cadets submitting content for the first time. So, to the repository......... recents......... Preprocessing Network Traffic using Topological Data Analysis for Data Poisoning Detection Wow, I immediately thought Sunburst and the coming Meltdown Spectre but no, the clue is in the title - pre-processing.................. Welcome to seeding an AI approach to sniffing trouble.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 24, 2024 17:35:10 GMT
Because of the problems reported on your borders, I was trying to figure out why Tx seems to be portrayed by those who RUN it, as a disaster zone rapidly deep sixing off the cliffs. Lose your heart to a librarian.................
Fact is, majority of those people coming across there in Texas, and it is huge numbers, are bound for east coast cities and areas and other areas around the Great Lakes, Chicago, etc. Most do not intend to stay in Texas but that is the route they're using. I am no fan of gov. Abbott there or his minions, then again, something has to be done. It is a tough problem. Many Texans have more concerns with liberals moving in from California tho and I don't believe Texas is falling off the cliff anytime soon. And I did lose my heart to a librarian. My girlfriend works in a couple. I remember telling her I had become fascinated with the story of the Little Bighorn, the next day she had procured 4 books for me to read, some recent releases. Has it advantages.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 24, 2024 17:39:26 GMT
As a wild guess: because its not there. You could be right, Sir. Still, I will pursue this matter. It is my search for El Dorado. Ride boldy, ride.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 24, 2024 17:44:26 GMT
Thanks, but no luck there. I think that site is too big for its own good. I typed in "Battle of the Bulge" and got a story about young Ukrainian officers.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 24, 2024 18:09:14 GMT
Read James Mitchener's "Texas" and you will discover that people have been coming back and forth across the Rio Bravo Del Norte for Centuries. It is what they do, and mostly for the same reason, to improve their lives. I do not blame them one goddamned bit. Were I in their shoes I would be doing the same thing. What are they fleeing from - Poverty - Fear - Oppression.
Abbott and his minions are in the unenviable position of giving cruel uncaring assholes a bad name. The people of Tejas will rise up and get rid of all of them and the sooner the better. That is not a political statement on my part. It is a statement I would use for anyone, of any political persuasion, that conducted themselves contrary to our values as a people, as Americans. Mister E is correct, something must be done, but it must be the right thing not the vindictive fear mongering machinations of a board certified jerk and his toadies.
You seal the border per the provisions of the Constitution by Federal not State authority. You treat everyone detained entering illegally with dignity and respect. You tend to their needs while in custody, and that does not mean locking them in cages like rabid dogs. You adjudicate, as prescribed by law, their status to determine their claim to being refugees. You let in the legitimate, and deport the others. You use Federal troops, or Federalized National Guard to reinforce the Border Patrol if that is necessary. In short you do it in adherence to our laws. These are human beings, and must be treated as such.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 29, 2024 0:50:34 GMT
Received email back from the Archives dept. at West Point. Ok, what they have their, in their catacombs evidently, is a copy of McAuliffe’s Christmas message to the 101st, this includes a reprinting of the German demand for surrender as well as the General’s reply. I simply did not know all were on the same paper. Had read his Christmas message itself before. Sorry for the confusion I caused. Mainly to myself. prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2014/11/03/surrender-nuts/
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Post by quincannon on Feb 29, 2024 1:58:46 GMT
You done good old son. You, and Ian on the other thread, stuck with it until you obtained the correct answer. That is exactly what folks like us are supposed to do in this world where any goddamned rumor will satisfy most people.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 29, 2024 15:37:25 GMT
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 4, 2024 10:02:04 GMT
Elwood, dont know if you have seen this before, I qoute; On December 22, 1944, at about 11:30 in the morning, a group of four German soldiers, waving two white flags, approached the American lines using the Arlon Road from the direction of Remoifosse, south of Bastogne. The group consisted of two officers and two enlisted men. The senior officer was a Major Wagner of the 47th Panzer Corps. The junior officer, Lt. Hellmuth Henke of the Panzer Lehr Operations Section, was carrying a briefcase under his arm. The two enlisted men had been selected from the 901st Panzer Grenadier Regiment.
The Americans defending in that location were members of F Company of the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. The Germans walked past a bazooka team in a foxhole in front of the Kessler farm and stopped in front of the foxhole of PFC Leo Palma, a B.A.R. gunner. Palma described the officers as wearing long overcoats and shiny black boots. Lieutenant Henke, who spoke English said, "I want to see the commanding officer of this section." Palma was at a loss for words, but Staff Sergeant Carl E. Dickinson who had been manning a position nearby walked out to the road and called the group over to him. The Germans explained that they had a written message to be presented to the American Commander in Bastogne.
Henke said they would consent to being blindfolded and taken to the American Commanding Officer. In fact, they had brought blindfolds with them. Henke blindfolded Wagner and Dickinson blindfolded Henke. As the blindfolds were being applied, Dickinson was joined by PFC Ernest Premetz, a German-speaking medic of his platoon who offered to serve as an interpreter. However no interpreter was needed.
Dickinson and Premetz left the two German enlisted men there and took the two German officers to the Kessler farmhouse. Tech. Sgt. Oswald Y. Butler, Acting Platoon Leader of the 1st Platoon, and Lt. Leslie E. Smith, Platoon Leader of the Weapons Platoon, told them to take the blindfolded officers to the F Company Command Post. They took the two German officers on a roundabout route to the Command Post of F Company, 327th GIR, which was a large foxhole located in a wooded area about a quarter mile away. Shortly after arriving at the command post, they were joined by Capt. James F. Adams, the F Company Commander, who had been at a forward observation post when he was notified of the arrival of the Germans.
When Adams arrived, 1st Sgt. Constantine A. Pappas informed him that the German major had already presented a written message. The F Company Executive Officer, Lt. William J. Herzke, was on the phone, reading the message to their Battalion Command Post in Marvie. The 2nd Battalion Command Post then notified the 327th Regimental Headquarters in Bastogne. Col. Bud Harper, the 327th Regimental Commander, was not there; he was out inspecting his unit's positions. The senior officer present was the Regimental Operations Officer, Major Alvin Jones. Maj. Jones notified the Division Headquarters in Bastogne and asked for instructions. He was told to retrieve the message and bring it to the Division Headquarters. He drove to the F Company Command Post and was given the message. The two blindfolded officers were kept in the woods adjacent to the foxhole Command Post.
Upon receiving Maj. Jones' phone call at Division Headquarters, the Acting Chief of Staff, Lt. Col. Ned Moore entered Brig. Gen. Anthony C. McAuliffe's sleeping quarters adjacent to the communications center. Moore wakened McAulliffe and told him, "The Germans have sent some people forward to take our surrender." Moore recalled that Brig. Gen. McAuliffe, still half asleep, said "Nuts!" and started to climb out of his sleeping bag.
Moore then went back out into the Communications Center where he briefed the rest of the Division staff of the on-going situation, including telling them of McAulliffe's remark of "Nuts!"
When Maj. Jones arrived with the message, the staff looked at it before taking it in to McAulliffe.
The German surrender demand was typewritten on two sheets. One was in English, the other in German. They had been typed on an English typewriter as indicated by the fact that the diacritical marks required on the German copy had been entered by hand.
The Division Operations Officer, Lt. Col. Harry Kinnard recalled that McAulliffe initially asked, "They want to surrender?" Moore told him, "No sir, they want us to surrender." McAulliffe arose and erupted in anger, which shocked those looking on. He took the paper, looked at it, said "Us surrender, aw nuts!" and dropped it on the floor. Maj. Jones was dismissed. McAulliffe then left the Headquarters to go congratulate a unit on the Western perimeter that had successfully taken out a German road block earlier that morning.
When Jones left the Headquarters, he went back to the F Company Command Post and spoke with the two German officers. When he returned to his Regimental Headquarters, he phoned the division headquarters.
Upon returning to the division headquarters, McAulliffe was informed that Jones had phoned to say that the two German officers were still waiting at the F Company Command Post. Since they brought a formal demand they felt they were entitled to a formal reply and they were to return to the German lines two hours after delivering their message.
McAulliffe asked that Col. Harper be summoned to the Division Headquarters. Harper, who was still inspecting his units' positions, was contacted by radio.
When Harper arrived at the Headquarters, he was asked to wait outside of the closed door to McAulliffe's quarters. Inside, in the presence of his staff, McAulliffe wondered aloud, "Well, I don't know what to tell them." At that point, Kinnard said, "What you said initially would be hard to beat." McAulliffe asked "What do you mean?" Kinnard, said, "Sir, you said nuts." All members of the staff enthusiastically agreed, so McAulliffe wrote it down on a message pad and said, "Have it typed up."
The reply was typed up, centered on a full sheet of paper. It read:
"December 22, 1944
To the German Commander,
N U T S !
The American Commander"
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Post by Elwood on Mar 7, 2024 1:13:52 GMT
Thank you Sir, I had seen that site before but it was some time ago. One final note here on this for me (hopefully). While looking around for info on this subject I came across the site of Reg Jans, a Belgian who runs WWII tours in Europe focusing mainly on the Battle of the Bulge. Highly knowledgeable in this area, I simply emailed him on his site and asked what he knew about the original “Nuts” note. He has hosted Patton’s family on Bulge tours, I do not know which specific ones, Patton’ son maybe. Anyway Jans replied to my email, said he had asked one of the Pattons about the note. They said German Gen. Von Runstedt kept it and it was still in his family. Jans did say he couldn’t confirm this. Anyway found this interesting. www.regjans.com/
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 7, 2024 8:52:36 GMT
Those tours and great, we went on the normandy tour, it lasted four days with every beach covered. I may talk her into the ardennes tour, there is a company called "ledger tours" who do all of those trips, they virtually pick you up near your home and within a day you are in your hotel resting before your tour starts the next morning.
I will ask about the note which fell into german hands,I know a couple of sites with german members who can maybe answer your questions.
Leave it with me.
Ian
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Post by Elwood on Mar 7, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
Thanks Ian!
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