|
Post by quincannon on Aug 7, 2015 15:30:04 GMT
While that story has value, it was not the one I was after. Kanipe made some off handed remark to someone back in the trains about swing right or keep to the right, which I took to mean away from the edge of the bluff (more to the east). I just can't recall the words or to whom he is supposed to have said it.
|
|
|
Post by johnson1941 on Aug 18, 2023 19:44:22 GMT
"Custers Route Knipe showed me where Custer struck across from Benteen Creek and came out at bluff. He struck edge of bluffs few hundred feet north of where Reno's afterward corraled and after going about 1/4 mile farther on was sent back. The dust of the pack train was visible from this point.
He did not go back on Custer's trail but struck directly across country on a ridge farther east than the one Custer went over."
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 23:53:41 GMT
There is a map here babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015001146235&seq=350 which I imagine most battle students have opined. It is FWB's handywork including his 'G' spot where Custer apparently first saw the village, from. I'm kinda happy with this and Benteen never changed his mind about it which is outstanding, really. I do wonder though, how Benteen knew of the place since he was somewhere distant to the east and closely examining the finery within a blazing Tipi. Kanipe could see the pack train's dust. The F Company detail had returned from setting the blazing tipi ablaze and Peter Thompaon was hunting up his spurs. Maj. Reno had not at that time called the fight on foot, and Mary Crawler was heading back to her lodge from the bluffs east of the river. Benteen's 'G' spot is 3411 and is that not reasonable corroboration, or it would be if we knew how he knew what he knew. I know that fred was tediously happy when I linked this map onto the boards. Go figure.....
|
|
|
Post by miker on Aug 19, 2023 8:13:33 GMT
Benteen clearly is an astute observer of terrain and possesses Fingerspitzengefühl and coup'de'oel.
|
|
|
Post by johnson1941 on Oct 9, 2023 3:27:42 GMT
Benteen knew cause DeRudio and Martin told him. They were both up there on Weir HILL with him after.
Q. Was it{where you saw Custer} the highest point down the stream? A. Yes, sir, and upstream too. It was the highest point around there. I went on the top of it afterwards, on the 27th, with Captain Benteen. ... Q. What is the distance between where you saw General Custer and this point “B”? A. I judge between 3 and 3 1/2 miles, this map don’t give the correct distance. I think I went over the ground on the morning of the 27th with Captain Benteen, and followed the trail of General Custer down that coulee to the ford, and from that ford up over the bluff.
Martin, via Camp... "I showed (on June 27) Benteen where I left with note from Custer and Benteen estimated the distance to be 600 yards to Ford B"
Benteen RCOI Q. When you met Trumpeter Martin did he report to you on which side of the river General Custer’s column was? A. Not at that time. He did after we had reached that highest point at the figure “7.” He then pointed out the place from which he had been sent back.”
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Oct 9, 2023 13:25:33 GMT
Hi Johnson41,
Your reference to 'Benteen RCOI,
Q. When you met Trumpeter Martin did he report to you on which side of the river General Custer’s column was?
A. Not at that time. He did after we had reached that highest point at the figure “7.” He then pointed out the place from which he had been sent back.”
This is straightforward, in the very simple way that speak when you are spoken to, applies to the Benteen and Martin relationship. Further, in very practical sense - Benteen knew Custer marched north because that is where Martin and Kanipe approached from.
Benteen, with good reason and expressed to some degree in the letters with Goldin; felt he ran rings around King at Chicago. Before any hairs start raising, let me add that Reno was not Whittaker's primary target in his accusations of fault at LBH. Benteen was, and fully appreciated this so............. Reno was pushed into the skirmishline and RCoI. Benteen just sat back and smiled.
Whittaker, very publicly, was gunning for Benteen. In glib comment such as that about what Martin said and when, it's a disregard. Benteen seeing two messengers arrive from the bluffs is absolutely a matter which should be regarded. Where ever it leads.
He was an experienced battle commander who had charged a brigade straight across a river into the teeth of a defended crossing during ACW. He knew very well where Custer went and admitting this at RCoI undermined Reno.
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Oct 9, 2023 13:40:59 GMT
Funny enough there is a clip on youtube about an interview done by Martini in 1904, he states that the general wanted a messenger and Martini was the third choice link
Ian
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Oct 9, 2023 13:49:00 GMT
Nice find. Is it worth dissecting?
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Oct 9, 2023 17:20:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Feb 18, 2024 23:54:32 GMT
This note from Custer/Cooke via Martin to Benteen, I’ve seen several pictures of it. Obviously it survived the battle, where is it today? Visitor center there at LBH?
|
|
|
Post by miker on Feb 19, 2024 0:12:19 GMT
I believe - am too lazy to go searching - USMA at West Point
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Feb 19, 2024 0:15:27 GMT
I searched some. Had no luck. USMA makes sense.
I do believe the “Nuts” reply from Bastogne is there.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Feb 19, 2024 1:22:07 GMT
It is in the West Point Museum and I have personally seen it, very near Patton's Ivory handled pistols as I recall, but that is not saying much as when I visited I had just had a very big lunch at the Thayer Hotel dining room, so I remember the lunch much more than the location of notes and pistols.
The "Nuts" reply I do not recall seeing if you mean the actual message McAauliffe sent the Germans. Don't know how that would even still exist, much less have been recovered. I don't recall seeing the Christmas message, but that could be there. It was just something run off on a mimeograph though
|
|
|
Post by Elwood on Feb 19, 2024 5:12:34 GMT
I do remember reading somewhere that McAuliffe’s response, or a copy thereof, is at West Point. Certainly cant recall where at the moment. If I find it I’ll post it tho.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Feb 19, 2024 15:44:58 GMT
McAuliffe was a West Point graduate and most if not all the collection at the museum is directly related to graduates in some manner or form. It would not be remiss then to have the original copy of his Merry Christmas letter, which is considered one of the twelve greatest examples of American prose, (along with Travis' 23 February letter from the Alamo) at West Point. If the original NUTS message is still in existence it should be there too I would think. I will wait and see what your research uncovers.
|
|