mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Apr 23, 2019 23:59:50 GMT
Does the blue line enter Deep Coulee somewhere at or above Henryville?
Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 24, 2019 9:23:41 GMT
I would say yes to both questions Mac, I would certainly think that the column would be in view of any camp circles adjacent to ford B, especially as it moves up hill towards B-N-C ridge.
I tried to match the blue route as it goes off to the left of the shot and I would say that it is certainly goes through deep coulee and on a course through Henryville.
Of course, Steve will be able to clarify this in more detail and correct me if I am wrong.
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 24, 2019 9:45:35 GMT
Here is our old friend Custer Apollo and his short clip took in MTC, it gives a great view of the ridges;
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Apr 24, 2019 11:49:16 GMT
Thanks Ian it is a good idea of the terrain. Old Custer Apollo is quite a mind reader or psychic perhaps. Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 24, 2019 13:57:46 GMT
You know the old saying Mac, with a pinch of salt He does assume a lot, I mean how did he know that it was Company L which formed skirmish on Luce, but as a view of the area and having the main parts actually pointed out for with a stick, it is pretty good.
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Post by Beth on Apr 28, 2019 20:59:58 GMT
BIG pinch of salt. On the other hand, his videos give one a good feel for the lay of the land. Perhaps I should sit down and watch them again to help me remember all I have forgotten.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Apr 28, 2019 22:01:43 GMT
The critical thing for me so far is finding any reference to Custer being seen from the village in this movement. I have not looked that hard but so far no account that seems to reference it. That brings me to the key question of would they be visible from the village? The terrain is so complex that I am not sure.
Cheers
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Apr 29, 2019 14:26:17 GMT
Would a movement along the blue line be visible from the village? Cheers It could be and maybe the reason for going toward Luce. Blue line would be 1600 yards and Luce around 1800 yards.
Regards
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Apr 29, 2019 15:21:43 GMT
Mac, I posted this previously. Flash, Flash, Flash, James McLaughlin, Indian Agent at Standing Rock beginning 1881 tells us that there were more than one group tracking Custer once he mounted the ridge. Aside from Wolf Thooth there were a number of others on the east side of the river tracking GAC, to include the village police. He was spotted before the Reno attack begins as Reno's advance was shielded by woods/timber along the river. Before the Reno attack Gall and others were attempting to mirror Custer's movements on the village side of the river. Once Reno began firing Gall et el went to interdict him. At this point there was consideration of fleeing. Custer was said to be heading hell bent for the lower end of the village, Ford D. Reno, was blocked rapidly and the majority of the NA's arrayed against him returned to the village to help obviate Custer's command. These NA's got in behind him and others from the North end cut him off in his attempt to attack from the Ford D area., The folks who told McLaughlin this tale were Gall, Crow King, Mrs Spotted Tail Bull, and others. They all agree that they were surprise by Reno and that he could have had a bigger impact on the battle if he had not bailed. Pretty good read, don't see it sited very often " My Friend the Indian." Regards, Tom Read more: greatsiouxwar1876.proboards.com/user/11/recent#ixzz5mUwTaNj8
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 29, 2019 15:22:17 GMT
Mac, I am only guessing here, but from his vantage point in MTC, Custer Apollo clearly show the trees around MTC, so any movement along the high ground to the right would be in view from the ford. The problem is that we only have a narrow view because of Bouyers Bluff and Greasy Grass Ridge and this may block any sighting from inside the village.
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 29, 2019 15:25:57 GMT
You make some good points there Tom, If I can recall, didn't Reno/Cooke and others say that they have reports of Indians coming back up the valley? These reports arrived before Reno had even crossed the river, so this valley could have had small bands dancing all over the shop.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Apr 29, 2019 22:02:02 GMT
Thanks for pointing that out Tom.
Looking at the responses
AZ gives a good reason to contemplate the path of the blue line as I feel Custer would like to be unseen if he was bypassing the first contact with Wolftooth band.
Ian makes a good point to factor in here as to the window for visibility from Ford B .
Tom shows that although Custer perhaps thought he was unseen, in fact there was some complex movement of groups around him. Can I throw in here that Gall was distracted in whatever he was doing by the death of his family and this must be considered in having him in position at Henryville as both Red Hawk and Gall report that he was there when "Custer" arrived moving south.
Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 30, 2019 8:10:41 GMT
The million dollar question is, how long are we talking about between the time the main column reached the southern end of battle ridge and the length of time for L company to reach it on the return.
That is a question we will never know the answer for
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on Apr 30, 2019 18:58:05 GMT
The million dollar question is, how long are we talking about between the time the main column reached the southern end of battle ridge and the length of time for L company to reach it on the return. That is a question we will never know the answer for Hi Ian, You bring up a good point. However, it is only meaningful if you believe in the theory that you and most if not all forum members believe, that being that all 5 companies made it to last stand hill and L company was returning from there. Although you and the others have made a good case for it, I still dont believe that all 5 companies made it to LSH. I dont think cos C I L ever made it there. Be Well Dan
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 30, 2019 19:14:07 GMT
Hi Dan, nice to see you my friend.
Yes, I know your theory, and to be fair you have stuck to it. But I have tried placing some logic in what I think happened and seeing that Custer only had around 200 fighters, he would be crazy to split his force once he saw the size of the village. Anything less then this force and you have no attack value at all. So, if you put this force in the hands of a fighter like Custer, you would have one main force of 200 fighters still mobile and capable of doing some damage.
I know you believe that they tried to shoot up any Indians following them up from ford B, but what would this achieve, the column still had the advantage on them as any pursuers must have been well away from the column as Calhoun hill is around a mile away from ford B. I recall you saying that Keogh could have ordered a halt while he positioned three companies to hang tough on battle ridge, but I would guess that this order with out permission from GAC would get his Irish arse chewed off [pardon my French].
Take it easy Dan, great to have you posting.
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