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Post by yanmacca on Jul 10, 2017 14:27:56 GMT
If the Japanese had her then she would probably be alive in 1945. Didn't some of the men who took part in the Doolittle raid survive Japanese captivity? Erhart didn't do anything to harm the Japanese, she was a civilian flyer so why bump her off, they had her aircraft, so send her to the nearest US base.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2017 15:32:13 GMT
Ian: There was a movie made in 1942 called Flight To Freedom, with Rosalind Russell and Fred MacMurray. The story was loosely based on Earhart. In the movie Russell was the heroic, ahead of her time, female aviator, and MacMurray the love of her life. Near the end Russell is approached by Naval Intelligence to include into her plans of flying around the world a flight over or near Japanese held islands in the Pacific. She accepts and then deliberately crashes her plane into that area, so the Navy has an excuse to mount a search for her and in so doing invade those areas that the Japanese had no desire for us to observe. MacMurray gets his revenge for his lost love flying a Dauntless dive bomber at Midway. Wartime claptrap.
As far as I can tell, and recall I have been following this junk for better than fifty years, the genesis of Earhart working as an intelligence agent, and going down somewhere in the Mandates stems from that movie.
It is all claptrap. Earhart was a pilot of mediocre skills. Noonan was less than reliable in anything he did. The whole thing was a huge publicity stunt dreamed up by Earhart's husband, Putnam (of the publishing firm), to cash in on Earhart's celebrity status. I guess they were thinking more of the money to be made than anything else.
Earhart's signal strength indicated that she went down somewhere near Howland Island. She just frigging got lost and ran out of gas, and that was and is the most likely explanation for what happened.
At the time all this occurred, had the Japanese captured Earhart, they would have been bloody fools not to return her immediately, and get a lot of good press for doing so.
Earhart was a tool to be used against the sneaky, underhanded, indeed savage Mister Moto, during those soon to be wartime years, and all the rubbish that has followed has grown out of that wartime propaganda, that was intended to raise the anger of the American people following Pearl Harbor.
There is absolutely nothing in Japanese records that hint or suggest that Earhart, Noonan, or their plane was ever captured in 1937. The Japanese kept meticulous records and we captured them all.
That two hour abortion of a program last night was pure fiction.
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Post by Beth on Jul 10, 2017 18:20:36 GMT
Did it have any redeeming quality or should I just delete from my DVR unwatched?
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2017 18:59:10 GMT
It has the same redeeming quality as an I Love Lucy rerun. It has value, and no I would not delete it. In fact I would encourage everyone to watch it. It serves as a synopsis of all the legends and falsehoods that have grown up over the years. That in itself has value. I go way back with Earhart, to "My Search for Amelia Earhart" by Fred Goerner (sp) vintage 1960 or so. I have watched and read everything on the subject that came my way ever since. All of them cover the same ground. All of them think that they have found the mother load with any piece of tin found in the Central Pacific. Last night was no different with the discovery of a piece of aluminum and three sets of smallish wheels resembling those of a truck on a freight car, small little railroad like affairs. What were these doing on some small coral atoll - Earhart must have been there blah, blah, blah. Well they made the mistake in the program of showing a picture of these wheels in use moving along a track. Where was evidence of the frigging track? ?. We have abandoned track bed out here that is still clearly defined and has not been used in more than a hundred years. When would anyone lay a track over coral sand. How - Why would they do it? Watch the show and you will see a trio of numb nuts, salivating at each new "discovery" like the Queens Cavalier at a horse shit appreciation convocation.
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Post by mlynn on Jul 10, 2017 20:45:04 GMT
It has the same redeeming quality as an I Love Lucy rerun. It has value, and no I would not delete it. In fact I would encourage everyone to watch it. It serves as a synopsis of all the legends and falsehoods that have grown up over the years. That in itself has value. I go way back with Earhart, to "My Search for Amelia Earhart" by Fred Goerner (sp) vintage 1960 or so. I have watched and read everything on the subject that came my way ever since. All of them cover the same ground. All of them think that they have found the mother load with any piece of tin found in the Central Pacific. Last night was no different with the discovery of a piece of aluminum and three sets of smallish wheels resembling those of a truck on a freight car, small little railroad like affairs. What were these doing on some small coral atoll - Earhart must have been there blah, blah, blah. Well they made the mistake in the program of showing a picture of these wheels in use moving along a track. Where was evidence of the frigging track? ?. We have abandoned track bed out here that is still clearly defined and has not been used in more than a hundred years. When would anyone lay a track over coral sand. How - Why would they do it? Watch the show and you will see a trio of numb nuts, salivating at each new "discovery" like the Queens Cavalier at a horse shit appreciation convocation. Your previous comment about the content of the History Channels shows lately is a deterrent for me for taking it seriously. The shows lean toward sensationalism and reality TV which I despise. I don't take their show seriously now.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2017 21:19:54 GMT
Then ML you are only getting half the story.
I do not like, nor do I watch reality or sensational TV. You may have to wait in line behind me in the despise department.
Here's where I think you have gone astray though. You have no basis to refute a story like this one on Earhart, or that Custer honeypot of several years ago, or even the Alamo du jour fairy tale, if you do not know the lies that they are telling and the fairy tales they concoct are. You have no basis to stand for the truth if you do not know what the lie is, so you may correct it.
Stories like Earhart, Custer, and the Alamo have more liars and soap salesmen around them than seekers of truth. Ignoring what they peddle lets them get away with the lie.
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Post by mlynn on Jul 10, 2017 22:15:56 GMT
Then ML you are only getting half the story. I do not like, nor do I watch reality or sensational TV. You may have to wait in line behind me in the despise department. Here's where I think you have gone astray though. You have no basis to refute a story like this one on Earhart, or that Custer honeypot of several years ago, or even the Alamo du jour fairy tale, if you do not know the lies that they are telling and the fairy tales they concoct are. You have no basis to stand for the truth if you do not know what the lie is, so you may correct it. Stories like Earhart, Custer, and the Alamo have more liars and soap salesmen around them than seekers of truth. Ignoring what they peddle lets them get away with the lie. I see your point. It isn't that I won't watch it. I just don't trust the source. I got an open mind here.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jul 10, 2017 22:24:17 GMT
Thank God they are not doing a History Special on Santa Claus! I know he is real. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2017 22:29:38 GMT
ML: These shows are produced solely for the consumption, of low intellect morons who would not know history from a bucket of horse piss. Why in the name of God do you think we have so many ignorant of how government operates, the FACT that most of the Founders were not Christian (in the normal and general sense, in that they recognized the supremacy of a Deity but not the Divinity of Christ), don't accept that the south was defeated, think it is manly to hang around pawn shops, smell bad, and get lost in the woods along on the icy road to Alaska.
I will flat guarantee you that eighty percent of the people who watched that show last night believe that crap lock, stock, and barrel.
Commit this to your notebook - You must always know what transpires on the other side of the hill. ALWAYS
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Post by Beth on Jul 10, 2017 22:59:47 GMT
It will be a few days before I can actually watch the show but it sounds like it will be on the level of those rather questionable documentary by Bill O'Reilly a year or so ago. I think it as called Legends and Lies. I found it was more lies than Legends.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2017 23:34:53 GMT
Beth: All these people are looking for the shortcut on the Glory Road.
They take three guys with otherwise good credentials and use them as front men for sensationalism. That does not mean that these three people are in themselves bad. You get the impression that two were in it for the money, and the third, the former Treasury agent was the true believer in the mold of wanting to have his name on Wagner's Gap.
Someone, I think Ian or Steve, but I have forgotten just who several months ago right here, produced a period map that clearly showed Wagner's Gap. The map was made before Wagner was born. Anyone who could read a map could clearly see it depicted on that map. Now, I am sure this was new to Wagner, as it was to me at the time. I know how he discovered it, but the point is that it was never lost, if you looked in the right place.
The same is true of Earhart, like with Godfrey in Century, we already have the very best most reliable information available, the contemporary radio logs of USCGC Itasca. I don't think they even mentioned Itasca last night. Another thing that would have been of great aid is the logs and complete records of that Japanese ship. Mariners keep meticulous records, and those logs would have told where she was and what she was doing every moment of her service life. No one looked for or at this stuff, yet they get all excited about a Coke bottle, a piece of tin, and the testimony of two well known whackados
That is not history, or scholarship, it is only meant to sell Viagra, dog food, and make insignificant men who live vicariously by virtue of wide screen TV, feel better about the ignorance they wallow in.
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Post by mlynn on Jul 10, 2017 23:42:43 GMT
ML: These shows are produced solely for the consumption, of low intellect morons who would not know history from a bucket of horse piss. Why in the name of God do you think we have so many ignorant of how government operates, the FACT that most of the Founders were not Christian (in the normal and general sense, in that they recognized the supremacy of a Deity but not the Divinity of Christ), don't accept that the south was defeated, think it is manly to hang around pawn shops, smell bad, and get lost in the woods along on the icy road to Alaska. I will flat guarantee you that eighty percent of the people who watched that show last night believe that crap lock, stock, and barrel. Commit this to your notebook - You must always know what transpires on the other side of the hill. ALWAYS Well that explains how people get blindsided.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 11, 2017 0:34:48 GMT
People get blindsided because they neither know or understand the fundamentals of whatever they are engaged in.
You cannot understand Quantum Physics unless you know how to add two and two first.
The History Channel takes advantage of any and all, who flunked 6th grade history, but still wish to appear relevant.
One of the biggest lies is that we are a Christian Nation. Ask anyone on the street and 99 out of a hundred will tell you that. We are nothing of the kind, and it was purposefully made that way. We instead are a nation founded on moral values that happen to be largely consistent with Judeo-Christian beliefs that extend back to codification by Moses. That consistency recognizes that value of all mankind. But don't tell anyone that Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the Divinity of Christ (the prerequisite for being Christian) or they will hang you from the nearest lamp post in Tuscaloosa, then pawn your belongings in that idiots pawn shop. It seems Christians too divide the spoils of their truth telling opponents goods and chattels. The only question is who gets dibs on your scarlet cloak.
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Post by Beth on Jul 11, 2017 1:45:25 GMT
People don't understand that the Founding Fathers influenced heavily by what we now call the Age of Enlightenment. They were influenced by deism which believed in a divine being but did not limit their beliefs strictly to Christian views. Colonial America was a lot more diverse that people seem to believe, there were people of all faiths here. The Founding Fathers could have claimed that we were a Christian nation, they chose to say God because it is all inclusive not exclusive. If anyone isn't familar with Jefferson and his Bible, I would recommend starting here. He cut and paste the King James Bible to remove things like angels and all miracles, including the Resurrection. The evangelism we see now in Christianity is modern when you look at the history of religion.
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Post by mlynn on Jul 11, 2017 1:57:44 GMT
People get blindsided because they neither know or understand the fundamentals of whatever they are engaged in. You cannot understand Quantum Physics unless you know how to add two and two first. The History Channel takes advantage of any and all, who flunked 6th grade history, but still wish to appear relevant. One of the biggest lies is that we are a Christian Nation. Ask anyone on the street and 99 out of a hundred will tell you that. We are nothing of the kind, and it was purposefully made that way. We instead are a nation founded on moral values that happen to be largely consistent with Judeo-Christian beliefs that extend back to codification by Moses. That consistency recognizes that value of all mankind. But don't tell anyone that Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the Divinity of Christ (the prerequisite for being Christian) or they will hang you from the nearest lamp post in Tuscaloosa, then pawn your belongings in that idiots pawn shop. It seems Christians too divide the spoils of their truth telling opponents goods and chattels. The only question is who gets dibs on your scarlet cloak. I totally agree. Thomas Jefferson wasn't the only one who was not a Christian. There were many Deists at that time. I feel that if people were truly truthful when it comes to religion, you would find there are many who are not Christians but are good moral people. The separation of church and state is one of the most important factors of our government and must be maintained if we hope to have peace and justice in the population. A student of history understands this completely because religion has been behind many of the declines of governments, wars and personal moral declination. I was raised a Catholic but, I no longer consider myself a member of any church. I have a great respect for people of faith but, only if their faith is practiced as a personal guide and is not crammed down the throats of others or excludes others. When I first started reading about history, I read biographies of the founding fathers and others that are responsible for our nation. These men and women were human and they had flaws. Also, like the Bible, people like to shape and mold them to fit their own beliefs and ways of life. Whenever, I hear someone speak of what Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington and etc. believed, I shudder. These people had their political side and they had their true personal side and many times the two did not match up. I have been interested in politics since Bobby Kennedy ran for President and nothing pisses me off more than ignorance of how things are run and why. So, I totally share your concern.
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