benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on Jun 9, 2017 22:22:15 GMT
. I have no idea the nature of the army in 1876 but I bet it was extremely difficult to for a Captain to disobey a Major who has countermanded his previous order especially the exacting detail of one that commands “come on” where? Was Benteen to jauntily pass by and holler “good luck?” Dave, In the US Military you obey your last lawful order first. It doesnt matter if your first order was from a LT Col and this order is from a Major. You are duty bound to obey this last order from the Major. With that being said, I dont believe Capt Benteen was ever going to leave Reno in his condition until they cared for the wounded and got his command squared away. Orders or no orders. Be Well Dan Semper Fi to Uncle Ernie
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jun 9, 2017 22:31:19 GMT
Dan The fact that Benteen stayed with Reno's command goes to show the mettle of the man. Not always the easiest way but the right way seemed to guide his actions in the field. I am sure he was an exacting man with his superiors, occasionally even irascible, but he did care about the privates and NCOs. Somewhat reticent of "Chesty" Puller I believe. Regards Dave I bet he was often called a SOB!
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Post by Beth on Jun 10, 2017 0:13:18 GMT
I can appreciate Benteen's dry humor as well as how sarcastic seemed at RCOI when the questioning went on and on. I am afraid though that the same thing I read as sarcasm and dry wit others look as inconsistency in his testimony.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Jun 10, 2017 0:15:36 GMT
"As soon as possible". Soon and possible being the operative words. It's alright Ian, I don't know the name of the low life wench that was playing patty fingers with Lord Silkbritches, and I never learned the name of the Baskerville's Hound either, but I suspect it wasn't Fido. Perhaps both were called "Fang".
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Post by quincannon on Jun 10, 2017 0:39:57 GMT
No that would not be appropriate for the dog.
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carl
Recruit
Posts: 48
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Post by carl on Jun 10, 2017 1:57:56 GMT
My opinion of Benteen was influenced by a passage in his letter, July 4, 1876, to his wife (pp 297-300, The Custer Myth, W.A.Graham, 1953.
"Corporal Loll, Meador and Jones were killed. Sergt. Pohl, both of the Bishops, Phillips, Windolph, Black, Severs, Cooper.. wounded."
Now, by naming them to his wife, she knew them by name. That shows that Benteen had discussed the men in his Company with his confidant, his wife. And that he took his responsibility seriously. It also shows that he respected the enlisted men as individuals. He was the type of commander that the men would respect and willingly follow.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 10, 2017 11:43:55 GMT
Carl, lovely post and shows that he had his men's best interest at heart.
It reminds me of the movie "she wore a yellow ribbon" in which Brittles reels of the names of the officers killed at the little bighorn to his dead wife after he waters the flowers on her grave, she knew them too, but the difference is that these were officer and not EMs.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 10, 2017 11:48:18 GMT
Going back to Benteen, I wonder what would have happened if Weir would have kept on moving prior to Benteen halting the column at the morass, I bet his company would have suffered in the long run, but having said that he did stop and water, which shows just how important it was to give the horses a drink, he may have grown impatient at the sounds of gun fire ahead, but his company watered just like the other two.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 10, 2017 12:05:59 GMT
Some Benteen's baseball team died on the day in question. If he in fact managed and played with these guys he knew them.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 10, 2017 14:17:16 GMT
Company H was also stationed at Fort Rice, a small post, where everyone probably knew each other.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 10, 2017 15:52:41 GMT
I suppose a US Cavalry company having a baseball team is like a British regiment having a cricket team, but knowing our lot circa 1876, this would be exclusive to officers only.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 10, 2017 16:37:11 GMT
Reflecting upon what you just wrote Ian, why would you then be surprised that our two armies have differing views on how to conduct combat operations, as reflected in the British Army thread?
When we declared independence from Britain in 1776, we declared independence of thought and action, as well as political independence.
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 10, 2017 19:04:15 GMT
What I wrote is the truth, that is what it was like then, I thought you knew that.
It was not so long ago that you had to go to collage or university or even private school before you could be pick to represent your country in either Cricket or Rugby Union, so this is not new.
I must stress though that there is nothing more annoying when some one puts your armed forces second behind theirs, especially when they are your closest allies, both the US and UK forces are the best in the world, so to knock the doctrine of mine just because I wanted to have some fun with a wargame scenario is bad form Chuck.
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Post by Beth on Jun 10, 2017 20:31:28 GMT
Some Benteen's baseball team died on the day in question. If he in fact managed and played with these guys he knew them. Both of the Bishops that he mentioned, were on his team, but the message does not mentioned all of the members of his team that were injured or killed. It's hard to get all of the team but some were excellent players and one at least had intended to go 'pro', unfortunately he was injured at LBH and unable play again. I have searched several musters and haven't found a Corp. Loll but there is a Corp. Lell from Co H that was killed. Jones is Julian Jones from Boston and was a painter--the same occupation that Benteen held before listing. Meador was a former farmer. Phillips was with Company C, Pohl is Pahl from Co. H. Windolph is Co. H, Black is Henry Black, Co H, Severs is James Severs, Co H and Cooper is John Cooper, Co H. I wonder if the confusion with Lell and Pahl might be in transcribing the letter? If you look at this (you can enlarge the signed area) Benteen's A's can look like O's especially in the word Captain, but in Cavalry his A's are A's. BTW by the time Benteen was signing the Final Statements for those killed at LBH, he had developed a very distinctive and in-your-face signature.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 10, 2017 20:36:31 GMT
Ian:
Don't doubt it a bit. I did know that.
If you think I am puting your armed forces anywhere but in the illustrious place it deserves to be, you had better get out your reading glasses and read the totality of what I have written again.
DEFINITION: Different does not mean second best, or third of fifth or tenth. It means different, not the same as, having different configurations, different values, stress different things, have different outlooks, promulgate different doctrine. The difference stems from how two different countries see things a bit differently.
I am not knocking you doctrine. It's yours. It fits your society. It is different than mine. Your doctrine would not fit my society, and mine not yours.
I would say the very same thing about France or Germany, or Switzerland. I would be less inclined to see a heck of a lot of difference in Australia and Canada, They tend to sway to our side of the fence.
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