Robbing Naval War Graves

[BrevetorCoffin]

Oops

[dave]

Brother it is so good to have you posting again regardless of what ever you post!!! I assure you we all feel that way!
Regards
Dave

[yanmacca]

Right I had little on this weapon, so I thought that I should add it to my data bank.

88mm SCHIFFSKANNONE C/35 (Anti-Ship Cannon)
Designed: 1935
In Service: 1938
Crew: 3 (Gunner, Loader and Gun Layer)
Mount: Pedestal
Traverse: 360°
Elevation: -4° to +30°
Muzzle Velocity: 700 m/s
Rate of Fire: 15 rpm
Maximum Range: 12.000m
Notes: Basically an anti-ship gun and not the same as the 88mm Flak. It had duel controls so it could be operated on either side. It was developed from an earlier weapon of this type which dated back to the First World War, the Imperial German Navy had similar weapons to this, so it was purely a naval gun. Only three types of ammo issued, HE, AP and Star. After 1942 many were replaced with either 20mm or 37mm.
Apparently there was a water tight ammunition locker located on the deck of the U-Boat (forward and port to the gun), which held enough ammo for the gun to engage targets while more could be brought up from below deck. The gun was controlled from the conning tower by the Second Officer (II Wach Offizier).

[dave]

Ian
The US Fleet Subs had a ready ammunition locker in the forward section of the conning tower. The pdf of the www.submarinemuseum site below has good pictures of the ready ammo locker.

I am not sure if you know that if you control f a small box will come up on the top right of your screen. Type in locker and it will go to it. My grandson showed this function so if y'all already know about this please excuse.
Regards
Dave

www.submarinemuseums.org/docs/fleetboats2.pdf
navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0829294.pdf

[quincannon]

Actually the fleet boats had the ready ammo lockers in several places around the conning tower, different sizes for different types of ammo ranging from 50 caliber to five inch, and none or very few were the same from sub to sub. The configuration of the Gato, Balao, and Tench Classes differed over the course of the war greatly, and with the different configurations so did the armament and location of the supporting gear.

One sub close to both yours and my heart Dave, Drum, changed four times in four years of war. Some of it because of lessons learned and some of it for a specific mission. The boats that went after light coastal craft for instance heavied up on automatic weapons, even at the expense of their bigger boomers.

[dave]

Chuck
Did you ever see any ammo lockers on any of the Fleet Boats you saw or where on? I have not found any pictures of post war subs with deck guns and suppose the ammo lockers were welded over. Does that sound about right to you?

I remember reading somewhere, is that not typical, that when submarines were converted to GUPPY configuration the ammo storage compartment was removed to provide space for additional batteries. I honestly believe that is correct but as always I could be wrong. The next time I am in Mobile, I will check into this matter with the USS Drum repair crew to see if they did anything with the ammo storage compartment. 
Regards
Dave

[dave]

QC
I posted over yours so thank you for the info.
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

I will check Alden when I have the opportunity Dave.

To the best of my knowledge each of the several types of Guppies were half gutted to make room for batteries and a lot of other stuff internally. Externally they all shed their conning towers completely, and brand new ones built to either the Portsmouth or Electric Boat designs. Some were also cut in half and lengthened.

It was a transitional period where surface combat by a submarine became completely obsolete, so all of the gun junk was put on the beach.

That was also true about the gun junk on fleet boats that were not Guppied. Drum had nothing left on her when she was in Washington. My brother in law's boat Toro (a Tench) was completely stripped of all her gunnery department equipment. Next time I talk to him I will ask how complete the stripping process was. I will also ask Rex at church next Sunday, he commanded a fleet boat (Sablefish) before he got a nuke (Swordfish).

Also please keep in mind the commanding officer, or perspective commanding officer had a lot to do with these decisions on the individual boats, like what to keep for other possible uses, what to get rid of, and in some cases what color he wanted certain parts of the boats painted.

When I model any ship, I spend more time on looking at relevant photos and reading then I ever do on building. None of them, even sisters built in the same yard, and launched within days of each other are ever completely the same.

[yanmacca]

I was surprised actually about the gun lockers, I would have thought that ammunition and water don't mix, and I know they are supposed to be water tight but keeping the damp out whist moving under water is a big ask.

[dave]

The storage lockers accessible on deck were watertight compartments with sealed hatches designed for deep submergence. Well I think that is correct?
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

That is my understanding as well, and bet they would also make dandy beer coolers.

There were two places to store ammo on subs and other warships as well, internally, and in the ready service lockers found on deck. For 20mm's for instance, each mount had its own externally mounted ready service locker. When the single 20's were replaced by twin mounts, I believe the number of ready service lockers were doubled. It appears that way on the Fletchers, so I suppose it was fairly universal.

[dave]

I wonder?
My father told of the time on his destroyer the USS Smith, some enlisted men stole the officers turkey and hid the bird in the number two 5" gun breech block. It was not discovered detail search. However it seems that some grains of the powder picked up by the fleeing bird caused gastric problems for the thieves.

My point being is how often did the crew use this ammo storage lockers for sneaking booze aboard and supplementing the ongoing homemade stills in the torpedo and engine rooms? Never underestimate the igenuity of a thirsty man!
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

Damned if I know. I thought for a moment that you were going to tell me that it was strawberries, and the Smith was the real name of the Caine. If so I am going to come to Mississippi personally and confiscate all of your father's keys.

If they hid the turkey in a dirty ass breech block they deserve to have gastric problems. I can see it now, The Enterprise is fighting off a swarm or two of Jills and Kates at Santa Cruz, and someone  on Smith without looking sticks a five inch projectile up a turkey's ass. I am much too old to laugh this hard, my spleen you know, and further it makes we want to pee my pants.

That sounds like what one of those idiots in my old Battery B Swamp Dogs would do, then invite me to dinner.

You sneak it aboard in your golf bag like that fellow in Bridges of Toko Ri.

[dave]

Just goes to show never doubt the ingunity of American service men/women, especially with food and drink!
Regards
Dave

PS I suspect my dad was heavily involved in theft of the dirty bird.

[Beth]

I suspect many things have been stored into places they shouldn't have. Steven and I used to have a friend who was involved in the early space program, some of the stories he used to tell us were side splitting funny and if even a quarter of them were true, they had a wild time at the Cape in those early years.