azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 22, 2016 13:27:31 GMT
Not as much as I would like to be able to do. I started my interest to study the battle to have something to do that was not work related. Ha Its like a cold case review that never ends. I have met a lot persons that are not in law enforcement so to that extent I accomplished my goal.
I think I have two chapters of his book that he sent to me and a third that he had sent to Clair. Clair sent it to me when Gordie past away.
I know that he spent some time living in Busby but I don't know the extent of the time.
When he formed the ICErs he had specific things we were going to do. CLW had contacts with Cheyennes that Gordie knew from living in Busby but they were never revealed to me. Gordie had a great sense of humor and he would tell me things such as he was going to limit the group to two men and three women and added his own commentary. I don't think any of us knew anyone except from the boards.
I am the last ICEr that I see on the boards.
His books and papers are still at Tori's house along with a very large map he had on the wall.
While looking for sources of persons on the board which was the LBHA and now it is called Diane's board but at that time it was associated with the Little Bighorn Association. Diane pulled it away since she owned when she and her husband left the association.
As far as I know Gordie was looking to do some GPS locations of sites. He had read and we had PMs regarding the use of GPS. I had those skills.
Right now Tori and myself have issues and certainly Tom knows about them. I don't want to discuss it since it may go away some day.
Like in most things in life we don't what is going to happen but if we did I would have asked more questions. We were planning a week at the 7th Ranch and I was sure there would be plenty of time to talk.
One more skill that I have that Gordie was interested in was cooking to save money on the trip. I was bringing my throw down camp cooking equipment and some Dutch ovens. I still take them.
Regards
Steve
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Post by Admin1 on Sept 25, 2016 3:46:42 GMT
The discussion of viewing the battle as an accident investigation or cold case is now here
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Post by Beth on Sept 25, 2016 20:41:40 GMT
Steve a cook is essential to every journey--unless it involves elves, dwarves and hobbits--then you get elven bread. When the girls were going to school in Idaho they would have an Oregon Trail day which included dutch oven cooking-it was the highlight of their school year.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 26, 2016 11:44:04 GMT
I got tired of throwing cans of beans in the fire and burning the outside and the center cold. So I learned how to cook outdoors which made patrols more enjoyable. Having the right equipment is a good start.
Regards
Steve
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 26, 2016 11:47:07 GMT
Camp set up at home to maintain the skill
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 440
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Post by colt45 on Sept 26, 2016 14:40:38 GMT
Steve, You may relate to this little tidbit. When I was a newbie in the Army, I wound up eating my C-ration main meal cold most of the time since you could never get it heated properly. Parts would be way too hot while the middle would be cold. One day in the field a 2-star general in 1st Cav came through the area where my platoon was halted, having a meal. He saw me trying to heat my C-rat over a small open fire using my tanker's stove. The tip he gave me was priceless. He told me to make a small hole in the top of the can, set it in the empty C-ration box, make tears in the sides of the box, then set the box on fire. The box burns down in about 30 seconds, and the main meal is completely hot throughout. Eureka! A completely heated meal in about 30 seconds. It was the most amazing thing I had ever seen. No wonder that man had stars on his uniform. Kind of goes along with your dutch oven skills.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 27, 2016 13:21:13 GMT
That why he gets paid the big bucks.
There is not as much rank in my Department but there are experienced officers. I learned as much as I could from them. You can cook a steak on oak coals after the ashes are moved off. A good reason to wear a hat. You have your fan with you.
I have a friend that has a chuck wagon and he and his wife compete at Dutch oven cook offs. I helped him one time when Arizona hosted the North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association conference in Tucson. We served several hundred persons. Kind of took the fun out of it for me on that day.
Regards
Steve
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 27, 2016 13:50:40 GMT
The prologue in The Fights on the Little Horn starts with Terry's order.
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Post by Beth on Oct 3, 2016 21:46:33 GMT
Fights on the Little Horn begins with a prologue and as Steve posts out a line from Terry's orders. It goes on to cover the reasons leading to the Black Hills Expedition, the failed attempt to buy the Black Hills from the NA and then the order for all NA to return to the reservation in the winter or be considered hostile--which turns the matter over to the War Department. There is mention of Reynolds and the Battle of Powder River in March, 1876. Reno's Scout, Custer's orders and finally he ends his narratative at the point when Custer is about to issue his orders to Benteen.
I have to admit I find Harper's use of older names for the Battle--Fights of the Little Horn a reference I am not familiar with. When did it go from the Little Horn (either fight or battle to the Little Bighorn?
I also find I am confused by reference to the Ash Creek. I believe I read in a source ages ago that at one point people refused to use Reno Creek because of blaming Reno for Custer's defeat. Is Ash Creek Reno Creek? or is just a section Reno Creek.
Finally I don't want to gloss over Terry's orders and even though just one line “ . . . you will proceed up the Rosebud in pursuit of the Indians whose trail was discovered by Major Reno a few days since.” I wonder though if that should be for a different thread. Opinions?
Have I left out anything from the Prologue that should be mentioned.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Oct 4, 2016 13:50:19 GMT
Beth
You got it right. It's Ash Creek if you don't like Reno. It's currently named Reno Creek on all Montana state maps. There are 5 or six Ash Creeks on one page of my Montana Atlas. Two are adjacent the battle area.
The one most concerning to me is that the next drainage north of Davis Creek is Ash Creek. So you could go up Ash Creek and then cross the watershed divide and continue down Ash Creek (Reno Creek).
I have never seen SFRC designated as SFAC.
The name is not as important as it is being consistent with something a new battle student could look on a map and find. Ask the Pretty On Tops where they live and they will tell you Reno Creek.
Ask the ranchers along Highway 212 where Ash Creek is and they would tell it drains into the Rosebud just north of Davis Creek off of highway 84.
It's had a lot of names including Benteen Creek but the state of Montana calls it Reno Creek.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Oct 4, 2016 13:59:09 GMT
As far as calling it the Little Horn we only need to look as far as Terry's order to view the use at the time of the battle.
The column of Colonel Gibbon is now in motion for the mouth of the Big Horn. As soon as it reaches that point will cross the Yellowstone and move up at least as far as the forks of the Big and Little Horns.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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Post by yanmacca on Oct 4, 2016 15:52:20 GMT
This creek, Reno, Ash whatever, now according to Martini he met Benteen at this location, now I know I have been here before with this meeting place, but did Custer and Benteen water their horses at the same spot?
It is important because with this info we can determine which trail he was following, because it sounds as if he was following Custer's.
So if Reno had stayed in the timber, then Benteen would have carried on over the bluffs and kept on Custer's trail. If this is true then so much for these Reno haters who called him rotten for running, because if he had stayed, Benteen may have missed him altogether.
I think that Reno's command would have been annihilated is they would have stayed, which I suppose would have bought Custer some time, which would have made no difference as there may well have been enough Cheyenne to defeat his 209, and give Benteen a headache too I would imagine.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Oct 4, 2016 16:42:10 GMT
I believe that Benteen did not water at the same place as Custer. Benteen at the morass in Reno Creek and Custer at the NFRC.
AZ Ranger
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Post by Beth on Oct 4, 2016 17:02:08 GMT
Beth
You got it right. It's Ash Creek if you don't like Reno. It's currently named Reno Creek on all Montana state maps. There are 5 or six Ash Creeks on one page of my Montana Atlas. Two are adjacent the battle area.
The one most concerning to me is that the next drainage north of Davis Creek is Ash Creek. So you could go up Ash Creek and then cross the watershed divide and continue down Ash Creek (Reno Creek).
I have never seen SFRC designated as SFAC.
The name is not as important as it is being consistent with something a new battle student could look on a map and find. Ask the Pretty On Tops where they live and they will tell you Reno Creek.
Ask the ranchers along Highway 212 where Ash Creek is and they would tell it drains into the Rosebud just north of Davis Creek off of highway 84.
It's had a lot of names including Benteen Creek but the state of Montana calls it Reno Creek.
Regards
AZ Ranger
I know from reading old sources that they name of locations have changed over time-it's like they threw names until something stuck. I agree it is important to keep the names the same for future students or the information becomes confusing and perhaps irrelevant There is an old fashionness to Harper's writing style that it is like reading a source from the turn of the century. With another Ash Creek in the area, it makes sense to use Reno Creek.
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Post by Beth on Oct 4, 2016 17:09:05 GMT
I believe that Benteen did not water at the same place as Custer. Benteen at the morass in Reno Creek and Custer at the NFRC.
AZ Ranger Harper discusses that in the next chapter about Benteen. He claims Benteen watered his horses twice which explains why some people claim x happened while watering horses but other claim y. Mr. Harper does not like Benteen either.
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