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Post by deadwoodgultch on Apr 19, 2016 12:59:49 GMT
Dave, You must look at it through the lens of Hitler, no retreat, no surrender, don't shame the Reich. Orders are orders. You must be willing to DIP, for the greater good. Support was on the way! The timber could have been held, if you knew anything about fire control. That whole action was just a screening action so the village could scatter. Your weapons were more accurate at distance. Miles said it could be done. Baker did it against similar numbers, with his back against a river in 1872. There you go Dave, no terms like "drunk or coward."
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Apr 19, 2016 13:48:00 GMT
I think you left out arrow dodging horses and fatigue jackets that were proof against fire, up to and including direct hits from 155mm artillery, but otherwise fairly complete Tom.
Lest you forget. Miles was a cavalry minded bookseller, and generally a pain in the ass to everyone that met him..
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 19, 2016 14:16:58 GMT
In short, there is no sound military reason for Reno to continue his charge or Stay in the timber. How infantry minded of you all and half a league onwards!! Best David
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 19, 2016 14:32:27 GMT
Once Reno saw that there was no support coming his way and that his position in the trees was compromised, he had no alternative but to get out.
Here is two terms that we should abolish from our dictionaries;
Cavalry Mindset Infantry Mindset
Hell the way things are going we can easily add a Artillery Mindset or Engineer Mindset, If I hear about those arrow dodging horses again I will spontaneously combust.
Yan.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Apr 19, 2016 16:29:36 GMT
I have a Fantasy Football Mindset 3 league wins in two years!
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Apr 19, 2016 16:49:32 GMT
David: Seriously - No sound military reason for continuing a mounted attack into the villages, unless you are the Ichiki Detachment (about 900 personnel) of the Imperial Japanese Army, that think swords and bayonets are sufficient to sweep aside a regiment of United States Marines with "One Brush of The Armored Sleeve" They all died, but all went to heaven with the surety that they were pure of heart, plus reliable sources tell me that there was not even a murmur of - Ichiki, you are a goddamned lunatic - from his loyal, trustworthy, and true band of medieval morons.
Hill 317 Mortain, France, about 150 personnel of 2nd Battalion, 120th Infantry NCARNG held that position for six days against the Panzergrenadiers of a full panzer division, supported by artillery and the direct fire of tanks. Similar situation to Reno in the timber, cut off, surrounded, no reinforcements coming. I am actually surprised that Captain Pretend has not used Hill 317 as an example of why Reno should not have held the timber. Oh wait Reno did not have the most powerful weapon on the battlefield, an FM radio. I wonder if Captain Pretend knows that?
The difference was that each time the place was assaulted the DS FA battalion, the 230th, reinforced with the remainder of 30th ID's DIVARTY put a wall of steel around that hill, that could not be penetrated. Give me a DIVARTY or even just the 230th, and I will hold that timber until the Second Coming of Christ Almighty. Without it, my ass is out of there faster than Reno could take a snort.
DUTS - Always remember DUTS. Sometimes you hold them and sometimes you fold them.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 19, 2016 19:35:57 GMT
Decision Unit Tracking System? Urban dictionary offers a definition unprintable in mixed company.
Adjutant Arsesmack would try to draw a parallel with Pickett's Charge. Something about fighting like Zulu Warriors or some such.
I see defensible reasons for Reno's actions and primarily bile-induced BS for alternatives. Based on what I have seen printed I can't bring myself to roll my eyes at Reno until he took off for 30 minutes or so to find Hodgson.
Best,
David
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Post by quincannon on Apr 19, 2016 19:47:49 GMT
DUTS = Depends Upon The Situation. Each situation is unique unto itself, so the solution must be unique as well. They pay officers, NCO's, and even private soldiers to think, something they do not dwell upon at Queen's Reenactor Staff College.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Apr 19, 2016 20:27:52 GMT
Brother Dave: "Adjutant Arsesmack"? I fear Mama will not be pleased with you hanging around Deadwood. He is such a bad influence on a couple of rubes like you and me. Next he will attempt to convince us he was "the best dang sergeant in whole dang US Air Force." Gotta be careful with them NCO's. Regards Dave
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Apr 19, 2016 21:31:54 GMT
Dave& Brother Dave,
Ever see The Great Escape, think the scrounger, I was as good as James Garner ever was, Our Lt.Col.(on the board) and others have run into the likes of me. It is amazing what a steak will procure, it is amazing what you procure will procure. Fix someone up with a unit cookout, well you get the idea. Flew to St. Croix, stayed for free, ate for free, well this could go on, but waste fraud, and abuse might come up. I don't want to put a retired Lt. COL in a bad place, even an Army one. He might even think less of me. Iceland was the best trip, supply special issues, and buying off goofy shots from the medics, along with free rides by Security Police, can all be had. Who needs a commander to make things work. Ever heard of a Purple Jesus, I supplied Grape Drink, some other section supplied the key ingredient. You can even make deals with other outfits, Command SGT Major Army Guard, MD and I graduated HS together. I mentioned his name to our LT COl. when I joined the other board in "14." he had not made that grade when our Lt. Col. retired, but I know he could look it up. The guy has a great ski condo in Colorado.
Please fear not, I will never take advantage, unless you want to have some fun!
Regards, Tom
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on Apr 19, 2016 21:53:41 GMT
Dave& Brother Dave, Ever see The Great Escape, think the scrounger, I was as good as James Garner ever was, Our Lt.Col.(on the board) and others have run into the likes of me. It is amazing what a steak will procure, it is amazing what you procure will procure. Fix someone up with a unit cookout, well you get the idea. Flew to St. Croix, stayed for free, ate for free, well this could go on, but waste fraud, and abuse might come up. I don't want to put a retired Lt. COL in a bad place, even an Army one. He might even think less of me. Iceland was the best trip, supply special issues, and buying off goofy shots from the medics, along with free rides by Security Police, can all be had. Who needs a commander to make things work. Ever heard of a Purple Jesus, I supplied Grape Drink, some other section supplied the key ingredient. You can even make deals with other outfits, Command SGT Major Army Guard, MD and I graduated HS together. I mentioned his name to our LT COl. when I joined the other board in "14." he had not made that grade when our Lt. Col. retired, but I know he could look it up. The guy has a great ski condo in Colorado. Please fear not, I will never take advantage, unless you want to have some fun! Regards, Tom Tom, Cmon, your other Colonels name is no mystery......Colonel Potter 4077th MASH...Right Radar Be Well Dan
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Apr 19, 2016 22:37:15 GMT
Brother Tom The perfect round peg for the round hole. The thought of those poor innocent officers being had by a slow walking, slow talking Virginian without ever knowing what happened. Wow, makes a native born Virginian proud.
Being that I hail from a large city, 20,000 folks, I'll worry about little brother since he is from rural New Jersey and try to look out for him. Regards Dave
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 20, 2016 0:04:07 GMT
Dave& Brother Dave, Ever see The Great Escape, think the scrounger, I was as good as James Garner ever was, Our Lt.Col.(on the board) and others have run into the likes of me. It is amazing what a steak will procure, it is amazing what you procure will procure. Fix someone up with a unit cookout, well you get the idea. Flew to St. Croix, stayed for free, ate for free, well this could go on, but waste fraud, and abuse might come up. I don't want to put a retired Lt. COL in a bad place, even an Army one. He might even think less of me. Iceland was the best trip, supply special issues, and buying off goofy shots from the medics, along with free rides by Security Police, can all be had. Who needs a commander to make things work. Ever heard of a Purple Jesus, I supplied Grape Drink, some other section supplied the key ingredient. You can even make deals with other outfits, Command SGT Major Army Guard, MD and I graduated HS together. I mentioned his name to our LT COl. when I joined the other board in "14." he had not made that grade when our Lt. Col. retired, but I know he could look it up. The guy has a great ski condo in Colorado. Please fear not, I will never take advantage, unless you want to have some fun! Regards, Tom Great movie. Dave says you are evil and vile. To Dave, my devious mind came up with a few other descriptive names mentioned on these boards which you seem to have missed such as "Hairbrush Hussar", "ROTC Reject" and others. Creativity wasted!! Oy vey! You arr forgiven. Best, David
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Apr 20, 2016 2:47:49 GMT
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Post by quincannon on Apr 20, 2016 3:33:35 GMT
Does the Taylor piece pre-date or post date Godfrey's first Century article? Within the first few paragraphs, and continually throughout, I thought it very similar to Godfrey. An awful lot of here say, and no real substance I think
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