Company C

[mac]

If Ian would be kind enough to repost his marker map here...Thanks Ian.
Why do the eight or so men that head north stay parallel to battle ridge and not head up slope? The portion that go south head straight up the ridge. Why would you just keep running north and not go back up towards the ridge... towards Company I and L?
Cheers

[Deleted]

Hi Mac,


Assuming those bodies are from the traditional scenario of a Co. C charge down Calhoun Coulee (which I do), then it would really boil down to two possible reasons:

• They perceive it to be safer going down the coulee than going up the ridge.
  
  
• There is something down the coulee that is drawing them down, for example chasing after loose cavalry horses.

Cheers,

conrad

[yanmacca]

Certainly Mac;

[yanmacca]

Mac do you mean the supposed company C men whose markers are;

121
124
125
126
127
128
253
254

Yan

[Beth]

I believe that Fred as a probably best match list for who he thinks those markers belong to.

[mac]

Nov 12, 2015 12:02:22 GMT @callmeconrad said:

Hi Mac,


Assuming those bodies are from the traditional scenario of a Co. C charge down Calhoun Coulee (which I do), then it would really boil down to two possible reasons:

• They perceive it to be safer going down the coulee than going up the ridge.
  
  
• There is something down the coulee that is drawing them down, for example chasing after loose cavalry horses.

Cheers,

conrad

Yes Ian that is the line.
Conrad...good possibilities. I do not remember any impediments to moving up that slope so I begin wondering.
Maybe as you say but the thought occurs that there may have been warriors already above them. This makes the whole company C movement interesting as Montrose has suggested they rode past the enemy and then were vulnerable from behind and took casualties which caused them to dismount (hope this is right montrose). That line suggests this type of scenario. It also makes me ponder where C actually went. The Coulee is narrow; I found it hard to imagine charging down it. At least in any way that could clear it. Welcome other opinions.
Cheers

[Deleted]

Hi Mac,

I'm not sure if you saw this thread on the alliance board, but it covers montrose's thinking and more: lbha.proboards.com/thread/5099/freds-latest-keoghs-dilemma. 

I like the theory that C charged down the coulee without realising that it wasn't actually cleared out.  It explains the markers and the archaeology, and as you mentioned you find it hard to imagine charging down it in a way that would clear it; that's probably exactly what happened.

Cheers,

conrad

[yanmacca]

I bet it would throw everyone’s timings out of the window to suggest that they saw Custer’s men on cemetery ridge and headed towards them, but that’s what so intriguing about this phase of the battle because we don’t really know for sure what transpired during that particular time frame as there have been many theories banded about over the years, like C Company making a sweep to allow Calhoun to disengage.

But looking at the map you could say that if C Company met overwhelming odds or fire and fragmented, just what were the options for the survivors?
South: Deep Coulee was full of Indians
West: Greasy Grass Hill/Ridge and Calhoun Coulee were full of Indians

So that leaves East and North, East sounds the best option.
But there again just how far down the slope did Harrington take his command, did he fail to find a suitable position to deploy a skirmish line so carried on too far?

And when he did deploy was this position too hot to handle?

Maybe they did form skirmish and found that the Indians were too close for comfort and then decided to remount and move to FFR, and during this re-mount some of the horses did break loose and troopers had to chase after them (like Conrad eluded to) and this took them to the north, but looking at the map again it looks to me like they rode down the slope then hit resistance and arched left to the plateaux that turn out to be FFR, the makers to the left could either be troopers who decided to head north or who’s horses were hit and they ran on foot only to be cut down.

Yan.

[Deleted]

Hi Yan,

I'm not sure how much of Deep Coulee could be observed from where Co. C deployed, but they should have known from their time on Calhoun Hill that it was the major point of ingress on that part of the field.

My thoughts (and some maps for representation!) on that charge down Calhoun Coulee are in that thread I posted, but in summary:

I think there was an area in the coulee which was out of sight of Greasy Grass Ridge where the troopers could stop and leave their horses. They could then advance on foot to the top of a low ridge in the ravine and use a reverse-slope firing position against GGR. Unfortunately that didn't take into account all the warriors left in the coulee behind them. Those warriors turned 180 degrees and instead of firing their arrows against Calhoun Hill, they started shooting in the opposite direction at the horseholders. Because those horseholders to their rear were being silently attacked with arrows, the soldiers on the ridge weren't ready for the horseholders to come running up the hill after them, and then all hell broke loose.

Cheers,

conrad

[yanmacca]

Thanks Conrad, another thing to consider is the length of their line, imagine 36-37 men on horseback moving in line, that would make this around 70 to 80 yards even with a yard between each horse, given that these mounts would kick up a lot of dust then it could be possible that the men on one side of the line had no idea at all of what was happening on the other end.

Yan.

[quincannon]

I don't believe anyone could go down into Calhoun Coulee mounted in a line formation.

The line is the desired formation that you deploy into from column, having the advantage of firepower forward. It may very well have been the intention to deploy into line once they got into close proximity of where the Indians were, but there is scant chance of deploying into line mounted to transit that coulee.

It would be hard enough to do while dismounted and retain control, but a dismounted limited distance forward movement was the best option, the option not taken, perhaps because of inexperience, perhaps because of rash and reckless, perhaps, and most likely, because the could not see squat of where the Indians really were, and just how close they had infiltrated.

[yanmacca]

True, I think I must have thought that they may have been in line on battle ridge so they simply just moved down also in line.
If there mission was a sweeping maneuver then I suppose they could have done it in column of twos, but that would mean that there fire power would be halved.

Yan.

[yanmacca]

Just thinking on how Keogh should of reacted, now if he was ordered to link up with Custer, then at the point that C and L got into trouble and he had to commit his own company to defend his rear, why didn’t he try to contact Custer, sure he may have realised late that all these issues were evolving around him but he could have sent out a rider to tell his commander that he won’t be showing up over on his side of the ridge any time soon because he had committed all of his battalion to battle and was totally fixed.

Yan.

[deadwoodgultch]

Hmmm, and some complain about Reno not sending a messenger after he broke off his attack and left the timber. I will have to think about that.

[yanmacca]

Well Tom if Keogh was expected to proceed along Custer’s trail and link up then this proposed link up was jeopardised by his battalion being fixed, now he already had one company fully committed in skirmish order on Calhoun hill, he then commits a second company to an action down in a coulee system, now even at that point two out of his three companies are fixed in one way or another, his own company could have been on the verge of being brought into action, so at this point his circumstances have change dramatically, so don’t you think that his commander should know about these changes?

Yan.