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Post by Beth on Aug 27, 2015 22:52:30 GMT
I know I read 'somewhere' that not all the soldiers who went for water received MOH because the officer they were under did not submit their names. Who was the officer and what were his reasons.
Where there other medals awarded besides the MOH?
Was Goldin's MOH the only one awarded well after the battle?
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dave
Brigadier General
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Post by dave on Aug 27, 2015 23:37:37 GMT
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Post by quincannon on Aug 27, 2015 23:48:54 GMT
Don't know about the other questions, but the Medal of Honor was the only one awarded because there were no others at the time.
The Purple Heart goes back to Washington's time and you see a bust portrait of Washington on the medal today. In his time it was called the Medal of Military Merit. It was discontinued after the Revolutionary War and reinstated in the 1930's (I believe). While the PH is considered our oldest medal, the Medal of Honor is the oldest continuous decoration dating from 1862.
It is doubtful that any of the water carriers would have received the Medal of Honor under today's criteria. Probably the highest they would receive today would be the Bronze Star with V Device. A good number of the MOH's awarded from 1862 until WWI would not qualify today for any medal, and others would be further down the pecking order.
Teddy Roosevelt was awarded the MOH during the Clinton Administration for action on San Juan Heights. I remember reading in the Army Times back then that the award was approved using the modern criteria. When you compare his award to a guy who went to fetch water (still valorous mind you), there is a grave disconnect.
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Post by Beth on Aug 28, 2015 17:54:20 GMT
I agree that criteria for the MOH has changed with time. To me at least during the Civil War and Indian Wars it was sort of similar to the NA counting coup--the awardee did something really brave that impressed the heck out of his fellow fighters. I did a quick check and over 1500 were awarded during the Civil War compared to 473 in WWII. There were 426 during the Indian Wars. Soldiers in WWII weren't less brave so they must have really changed the what merited a MOH and added other awards for valor.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 28, 2015 20:59:07 GMT
Beth, The answer to your question is Captain French, Company M. He had more people covering and carrying. His comment to Benteen when asked, if he had anyone to submit for the MOH, was all or none!
Regards, Tom
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Aug 28, 2015 21:25:45 GMT
Beth From October of 1916 to January 1917, a board of 5 retired Generals of the US Army reviewed each Medal Of Honor awardee to insure the recipient deserved the citation. The board, headed by Lt General Nelson Miles, studied each of the 2,265 medals awarded which were given numbers and not names. 917 were declared to be invalid including 864 medals awarded to the 27th Maine for reenlisting in 1863. Interestingly the only woman to have been awarded the medal, Dr. Mary Walker a physician during the War, refused to surrender her medal. In 1977 the Army reconsidered and declared her award was valid and it was reinstated. Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on Aug 28, 2015 21:53:23 GMT
Thanks everyone. A lot of great information. Another one about the MOH in general. Has the possibility of a son's(and now daughter) admission to a military academy always been attached to the MOH?
Beth
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Post by quincannon on Aug 28, 2015 22:20:07 GMT
If you would rephrase that question to --- Does the son or daughter of a person awarded the Medal of Honor get an automatic admission to a military academy --- I just don't know. The only son I know of that was admitted supposedly on the strength of an award to the father was Colin Kelly's son. Don't know if that was true, and I don't know if he graduated.
If the award to the father grants automatic admission, it is a piss poor way to run a railroad. It should be based on the overall academic, and extra curricular activities excellence of the candidate him/her self.
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dave
Brigadier General
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Post by dave on Aug 28, 2015 22:37:05 GMT
Beth If I understand correctly, which is 50/50 chance, the children of Medal of Honor recipients if they qualify may be admitted without regard of nomination or quotas at any of the 5 service academies. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Aug 28, 2015 22:54:37 GMT
That is the most probable answer Dave. If they are otherwise qualified, they do not require a nomination.
There is nothing in holy writ that says the son or daughter of an awardee, is necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer
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Post by Beth on Aug 28, 2015 23:34:40 GMT
If you would rephrase that question to --- Does the son or daughter of a person awarded the Medal of Honor get an automatic admission to a military academy --- I just don't know. The only son I know of that was admitted supposedly on the strength of an award to the father was Colin Kelly's son. Don't know if that was true, and I don't know if he graduated. If the award to the father grants automatic admission, it is a piss poor way to run a railroad. It should be based on the overall academic, and extra curricular activities excellence of the candidate him/her self. It's not automatic, it's if qualified. I did check on that. There are a few ways to get into the academies one is military affiliate dand the other is by a recommendation from your congress critter and there is a quota per state. Military affiliated doesn't count against state's quotas. "If you are eligible to apply in one of the military-affiliated categories, follow the specific instructions for that category as detailed below. To request a nomination in the Presidential, Children of Deceased or Disabled Veterans, Military or Civilian Personnel in a Missing Status, or Children of Medal of Honor Recipients categories, follow the guidelines in the Military Affiliated Nomination Request Sample Letter. Additional categories may have their own forms and guidelines. The deadline is January 31st. Mail your nomination request letter to the Admissions Office" PS. The use of the USAF academy site is only because the West Point one is down but. Medal of Honor "Perks"
Military academy admissions
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Post by Beth on Aug 28, 2015 23:46:21 GMT
Sorry that reply of explanation was posted so late. I started it and then it became chaos at home. When I got back to the computer I hit send without seeing if there was further conversation.
We are having a plumbing issue and between dealing with plumbers and the landlord has been--fun. Add to that Steve got home from Iowa--the dog was getting insistent that no, he had not been fed, Sam needing something sent to her...
It's just been one of those days.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 10, 2017 16:23:06 GMT
Dec 6, 2017 at 6:11pm dave said: Steve As a follow up to the Indian sharpshooter issue, he or they accomplished there long range hits without a telescopic device correct? Could you make those type of accurate shots without a scope on whatever type of weapon they might have had?
I made a kill of a deer at 275 yards with a 30-06 180 grain boat tail on a windless morning from a deer stand about 15 feet high and thought I had done very well till reading the soldier's comments about the Sharpshooter Ridge marksman. Regards Dave
Dave
It all depends on the shooter and equipment. If the rifle is precise or low MOA (minute of angle) then a good shooter could be accurate within a few shots. Iron sights are precise enough to make that shot at 600 - 700 yards. Since the targets are not moving much then moving the shot to make it accurate in a dusty condition would seem relatively easy.
On our way to Vietnam we shot at 800 yards with iron sights using the small aperture on the M16A1. I know it has a flatter trajectory but a shooter with a .50-70 should know his trajectory also. I don't think these shooters were snipers with one shot one kill accuracy. I think they could walk the shots in given time. I also think the return fire from the shooters with Reno using rifles was also accurate enough to at least make the shooter quit.
Regards
Steve
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colt45
First Lieutenant
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Post by colt45 on Dec 11, 2017 21:35:31 GMT
Dave, You can walk your rounds to the target using BOT (burst on target), which means watching where the rounds hit and moving the sight picture to "move" the round's impact point to the target. This works very well for a stationary target, but a good shooter can observe the impact point and move the sights to allow for a moving target. I have done this with my M1A (iron sights) both on stationary and moving targets. It is also one of the things taught to tankers when using the choke sites in the tank (backup sight mechanism).
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Post by dan25 on Apr 8, 2018 14:22:25 GMT
I have a ridiculous habit of getting sidetracked, also fixating on the smallest thing that doesn't seem to make sense to me, yet wouldn't concern anyone else. I also interpret somethings incorrectly. On pg. 162 of RCOI Dr. Porter was asked, "What position were you in with your wounded?" Dr. Porter answered, "there was a little hollow where we had a hospital, and I remained there." digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/History/History-idx?type=goto&id=History.Reno&isize=M&submit=Go+to+page&page=162Reading further there is no mention of Dr. Porter leaving Reno Hill and going to Weir Point. So I am assuming he remained on Reno Hill with the serious or critically wounded. I would appreciate someone's opinion if I interpreted this correctly. I do have a reason for asking this.
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