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Post by quincannon on Feb 11, 2024 19:02:20 GMT
Mike the M36 was nothing but an M10 up-gunned with a 90mm. There was a bit of rearrangement (not much) in the turret to accommodate the 90mm, but otherwise they were identical.
Of the three, M10, M18, and M36, most who know of these things say the M18 was the best of the bunch, not because of gun, but rather speed. The 18 was the least produced, and I think there were only two battalion in Northern Europe. Most went to Italy. The 705th TD had them at Bastogne, and they kicked the crap out of the Mark IV's. The only smart guys in Europe on the Allied side were the Brits with they 17 pounder grafted onto a Sherman, that is until the Pershing arrived in 1945.
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 11, 2024 19:50:25 GMT
The M36 was the least produced, but they saw service from late summer 1944 onwards, probably got cut short with the planned arrival of the Pershings. Numbers: M10: 4.993 M18: 2.507 M36: 1.722
Yes QC, mounting the 17 pdr on a standard M4 was a game changer and the Germans knew it too, that’s why they tried to take out the firefly’s first, which made the smart tankers paint their gun barrels to make them look shorter;
We also managed to get the 17 pdr on three other vehicles;
Ian
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 13:49:33 GMT
This is knida funny armchair history but not a shade on 1876. 🤭 The St. Vith kill is mentioned here americangimuseum.org/collections/restored-vehicles/m8-greyhound-1943-1945/ as Tiger I. What i'm thinking is the story went wildfire in the frontlinr and surely deservedly. The confusion arose and arises because it seems there were only TWO of the 308mm rocket propelled gun systems deployed by the Germans so hardly anyone knew of them, and Tiger was a Tiger. I'd guess that vehicle went to rear area PDQ for the boffins to crawl over, and the war went on and the legend became a myth. Nice find for that point blank 75mm kill. On a more modern note related to bigger, heavier, wider... Omg, it sank. What is wrong with a 105mm main gun? It's a real tank killer. The three shot grouping image is identified as St. Vith on the website. I'll see if I can get a response from the poster but thar was the Flickr portfolio if I remember.. So we'll, maybe. What i've outlined, M8 on JadgTiger makes a lot of sense in my mind with a cool headed commander grasping an opportunity. If that is what happened then there will be a ton of engineering assessments reports laying about somewhere. The linked museum report of the fight put the Greyhound at 25 yards. Fact or fiction? Look at those holes... The grouping.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 14:49:36 GMT
Tidying up my scatterbrain on this, the vehicle engaged was a Sturmtiger (German for 'Assault Tiger') Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 Wiki - 'Its primary task was to provide heavy fire support for infantry units fighting in urban areas. The few vehicles produced fought in the Warsaw Uprising, the Battle of the Bulge and the Battle of the Reichswald. The fighting vehicle was known by various informal names, among which the Sturmtiger became the most popular.' This is the li'l Momma, which Company B popped from behind at point blank (maybe 25 yards - but this coming from Texas, it was probably 25'. You know how everything Tx is just bigger by far) and one could reasonably assume that, a whole bunch of Wermacht Infantry were accompanying their big little bat. A 308mm rocket assissted gun (mortar?) would have made a mess of anything it dropped a round on - includding Patton or an M-26. That's what i'm working up. Unknown Tiger II variant destroyed by possibly the bravest troops in Europe at the time. Hell of a job, of a job; and so sya all of us. And so say all of US.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 12, 2024 16:34:29 GMT
Sturm Tiger and Elephant were Tiger I variants. Jagdtiger was a Tiger II variant. Sturm Tiger, Elephant and in fact Tiger I's were ugly as home made sin. The Tiger II (King Tiger) and Jagdtiger were works of visual art. Although they shared the name Tiger, the Tiger I (Panzer VI) and the King Tiger (Panzer VI) were two completely different tanks.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 16:54:30 GMT
Yup, I'm getting myself a lessonhelp in ways of the tiger. Comment from the Flickr provider who put the image up in his portfolio ( Wing attack Plan R ) Towards bottom of page As per the blurb below, which may be from the Wiki - The davit or crane for loading the ammunition can be seen. I ran into a confirmation somewhere that this was Bulge '44, and St. Vith so finding that again should help pin this action down. From Wing attack Plan R's photo data - U.S. T/Sgt Inspects Holes From Armor-Piercing Gun Rounds in German Sturmtiger / Battle of the Bulge Sturmtiger (German: "Assault Tiger") was a World War II German assault gun built on the Tiger I chassis and armed with a 380mm rocket-propelled round. The official German designation was Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61. Its primary task was to provide heavy fire support for infantry units fighting in urban areas. The few vehicles produced fought in the Warsaw Uprising, the Battle of the Bulge and the Battle of the Reichswald. The fighting vehicle is also known by various informal names, among which the Sturmtiger became the most popular. Development: The idea for a heavy infantry support vehicle capable of demolishing heavily defended buildings or fortified areas with a single shot came out of the experiences of the heavy urban fighting in the Battle of Stalingrad in 1942. At the time, the Wehrmacht had only the Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B available for destroying buildings, a Sturmgeschütz III variant armed with a 15 cm sIG 33 heavy infantry gun. Twelve of them were lost in the fighting at Stalingrad. Its successor, the Sturmpanzer IV, also known by Allies as Brummbär, was in production from early 1943. This was essentially an improved version of the earlier design, mounting the same gun on the Panzer IV chassis with greatly improved armor protection. While greatly improved compared to the earlier models, by this time infantry anti-tank weapons were improving dramatically, and the Wehrmacht still saw a need for a similar, but more heavily armored and armed vehicle. Therefore, a decision was made to create a new vehicle based on the Tiger tank and arm it with a 210 mm howitzer. However, this weapon turned out not to be available at the time and was therefore replaced by a 380 mm rocket launcher, which was adapted from a Kriegsmarine depth charge launcher. In September 1943 plans were made for Krupp to fabricate new Tiger I armored hulls for the Sturmtiger. The Tiger I hulls were to be sent to Henschel for chassis assembly and then to Alkett where the superstructures would be mounted. The first prototype was ready and presented to Adolf Hitler in October 1943. Delivery of the first hulls would occur in December 1943, with the first three Sturmtiger completed by Alkett by 20 February 1944. Due to delays, Hitler did not request production of the weapon until 19 April 1944; twelve superstructures and weapons would be prepared and mounted on rebuilt Tiger I chassis. The first three production series Sturmtiger were completed by Alkett in August 1944. Plans to complete an additional seven from 15 to 21 September 1944 were presented to Hitler in a conference on 18–20 August 1944. Ten Sturmtiger were produced in September, along with an additional five in December 1944. Hitler had laid great importance on the special employment of the Sturmtiger and believed it would be necessary to produce at least 300 rounds of ammunition per month. Design: The Sturmtiger was based on the late model Tiger I, keeping its hull and suspension. The front of the Tiger's superstructure was removed to make room for the new fixed casemate-style fighting compartment housing the rocket launcher. This was located directly at the front of the vehicle, giving it a boxy appearance. Compared to the Tiger tank, the Sturmtiger was much shorter overall, only 6.28 m (20 ft 7 in) compared to the Tiger's 8.45 m (27 ft 9 in), due largely to the fact that it did not have the long main gun of the latter which protruded far in front of the hull. It also was slightly lower than the Tiger at 2.85 m (9 ft 4 in) compared to 3 m (9 ft 10 in). Armour: Since the Sturmtiger was intended for use in urban areas in close range street fighting, it needed to be heavily armoured to survive. Its sloped (at 47° from vertical) frontal armor therefore was 150 mm (5.9 in) thick, while its superstructure side and rear plates were 82 mm (3.2 in) thick. The hull front was 100 millimetres (3.9 in) or 150 millimetres (5.9 in) if it had an additional armor plate fitted. This pushed the weight of the vehicle up from the 57 t (56 long tons; 63 short tons) of the Tiger I to 68 t (67 long tons; 75 short tons). Armament: The main armament was the 380 mm Raketen-Werfer 61 L/5.4, a breech-loading barrel, which fired a short-range, rocket-propelled projectile roughly 1.5 m (4 ft 11 in) long. There were a variety of round types with a weight of up to 376 kg (829 lb), and a maximum range of up to 6,000 m (20,000 ft), which either contained a high explosive charge of 125 kg (276 lb) or a shaped charge for use against fortifications, which could penetrate up to 2.5 m (8 ft 2 in) of reinforced concrete. The stated range of the former was 5,650 m (6,180 yd). A normal charge first accelerated the projectile to 45 m/s (150 ft/s), the 40 kg (88 lb) rocket charge then boosted this to about 250 m/s (820 ft/s). The design of the rocket system caused some problems. The hot rocket exhaust could not be vented into the fighting compartment nor could the barrel withstand the pressure if the gasses were not vented. Therefore, a ring of ventilation shafts was put around the barrel which channeled the exhaust and gave the weapon something of a pepperbox appearance. Due to the bulkiness of the ammunition, only fourteen rounds could be carried internally, of which one was already loaded, with another in the loading tray. The rest were carried in two storage racks. To help with the loading of ammunition into the vehicle, a loading crane was fitted at the rear of the superstructure next to the loading hatch. Even then, the entire five man crew had to help with the loading. It was intended that each Sturmtiger would be accompanied by an ammunition carrier built on the same Tiger I chassis, but only one carrier was completed. Located at the rear of the loading hatch was a Nahverteidigungswaffe launcher which was used for close defence against infantry in addition to a frontal mounted 7.92 mm MG 34 machine gun. (wiki) Show your appreciation with the gift of Flickr Pro Alfred Fartknocker, 說參母, and joe snag faved this
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 17:12:04 GMT
I'm here now - link - T/Sgt Haynes WW2 Photos I found these photos in an old suitcase in a junk store. The T/Sgt was assigned to the 704th Railway Grand
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 17:33:00 GMT
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 17:53:20 GMT
It's getting........tedious. I have a theory yo destroy and looks like I am having some fun along the way. When Hitler cancelled the battleship program those being built at the time were turned in......... tanks link Fairly sure this is the same vehicle link at later date and location but Brit theatre of ops?
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 18:03:12 GMT
The Oberempt Monster - There were a total of five monsters in Oberembt of the 11. Panzerdivision / Sturm-Mörser-Batterie 1001. The places in the attack were : Jülicher Strasse Crossroad - > Auf dem Luetchen and Buschgasse Crossroad ->Tollhausenerstrasse. The monster tried to escape on the road Neusser Strasse. The driver of the Monster ( photo ) was very young and inexperienced. When trying to escape, he has gotten stuck. During this time, a Sherman tank followed the direction of Bushgasse. From crossing Jülicher Strasse / Buschgasse he shot him in the engine. These are the details from the gunner of the Monster. He was captured. The young driver tried to flee and remain standing for several times been called. Then he was shot before the bridge Finkelbach. Report from General Bayerlein - Corpsgruppe Bayerlein - Translation into English from the original
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2024 18:04:09 GMT
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 12, 2024 20:54:26 GMT
QC is correct, the Ferdiand and later Elephant were both part of the Tiger Family.
They only formed three Sturmmörserkompanie's; 1001, 1002 & 1003, in total only 18 vehicles were made between August-December 1944.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Feb 12, 2024 21:14:11 GMT
Makes you wonder doesn't it? That late in the war to even think of producing such unnecessary trash goes to show Hitler's fascination with the idea that if it is bigger it must be better. Something similar could really be said about the Panther (Pzkw V) and the Tiger and King Tiger. None of the three really lived up to their full potential. That is not to say they were not fairly well designed, and could have proved very useful. All three though suffered from time. They did not have the time to fully develop, test, and evaluate their performance, or lack thereof before being thrown into battle.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 13, 2024 14:48:24 GMT
A few minors. If I recall correctly, the Firefly issue with longer barrels worked both ways with short 75mm tankers placing long shrouds 'over the weapon to 'scare batshit' out of Panthers There are pics on the web............ QC, crabs in Hawaii........... nice. The 1944 St. Vith kill seems to have had quite some traction. Some excellent work modelling the reload. Thing is though, the crew look overscaled. Weird. Giant tank. Giant crew. 7AD St. Viht\\th - ' The Germans had attacked at daylight the day before. Two regiments (422-IR and 423-IR) of the Golden Lions Division were surrounded 7 or 8 miles to the east of St Vith. The other regiment (424-IR) had been hard hit. The situation to the north and south was hazy. Vehicles were streaming to the rear. Rumors of Tiger tanks were prevalent. Contact with elements of the division was sporadic. There was an air of impending disaster.
A radio message was sent to my combat command, which was leading the division on its march south, to report to me at St Vith. I later learned that the division had not started to move before 0500, Dec 17, because it had been unable to obtain road clearance. I planned to counter-attack and relieve the surrounded combat teams of the 106-ID, but traffic conditions prevented this action until it was too late..........
Lt Col Fuller, Cpl Cox, and I took over the job of clearing a path for the tanks, and we started getting vehicles to move over to the sides. Slowly a path was beginning to open and the tanks began to roll along at a snail’s pace with halts every 50 to 100 feet. Several times we had to wave the lead tank forward at full speed when some vehicle refused to pull over.
Usually, the sight of 30-odd tons of steel roaring down on him was all we needed to get the driver to move over. Several times, senior officers in command cars attempted to pull out into a space which I was opening up, and each time I told them to get back, that I didn’t care who they were, nothing was coming through except our tanks and anything else which was headed for the front, and to get out of the way. One company commander, Capt Dudley J. Britton, Baker Co 23-AIB, said: ‘that day I saw the highest-ranking traffic cops I have ever seen’. Finally, in 2015, Able Co entered St Vith, followed closely by Baker Co and HQs Co. It had taken two and one-half hours for a company to move three miles – all because of the vehicles fleeing to the rear with men who refused to pull aside and let troops through (troops who actually would save them if they could reach the town before the Germans did). There was one of the biggest tragedies of St Vith; that American soldiers fled, and by their fleeing crowded the roads over which reinforcements were coming, and thus prevented the arrival of these reinforcements in time to launch a counter-attack to save the 422-IR and the 423-IR (106-ID), then cut off by the Germans east of St Vith.Hmmm......... Panic is one ilttle female doggie......... Is it not. Still, during the later fighting around Aachen, a troop of Shermans pulled up in close formation and a SturmTiger dropped a 308mm round 'on' them. Not a lot left, apparently. IMHO, the Panther to lesser degree, and Tigers were the product of defensive thinking and the art of perfection. The Sherman was a best we can do for now jobbie that could get the job done. The advantage which Germany discovered was the **mm flak gun taking on tanks and then building tanks to carry it effectively. They upgunned but in this 21st Century, and accepting the simple mathematics of physics, anyone saying that a 120mm or 128mm tank gun, is better than a 105mm, is a tediously stupid and dangerous individual doing extreme damage to capability. Hell, why not stick a 308mm on the Abrahms? I should perhaps qualify the bigger is better fun and games in respect the Panthers and Tigers. They were intended for offensive use but the war had become defensive by the time they were available in quantity. So, name me one offensive campaign where German heavy armour was succesful. It's a mystery in a myth, in a bigger myth that there is something supreme about German engineering. It stank. It still does but they persist with rubbish and eventually that is all that is the market place.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 13, 2024 17:11:46 GMT
Surprise............. >Choices Porsche or Henschel? Help.......... Yo Momma! June 14th 2010 - ******* 105 can destroy fixed & moving armoured targets, at a distance of 5 kilometers with its tandem warhead penetrating up to 550 mm of armour. So, an anti tank missile specifically designed to be launched from a 105mm calibre tank gun will penetrate 20 inches of armour plate (at least). That is one foot and eight inches of steel - big hole. I make the weight of a 550mm thick armour plate, 2000mm x 1300mm as about 12 tons. and , not worth spit!
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