|
Post by quincannon on Nov 28, 2022 19:11:21 GMT
Yes. Very sad.
|
|
|
Post by rollingthunder on Nov 28, 2022 19:16:45 GMT
rest in peace
|
|
mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
|
Post by mac on Nov 28, 2022 21:50:52 GMT
So sorry to hear it. Vale Fred.
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Nov 28, 2022 22:01:29 GMT
I am so sorry for his loss. At times he could be difficult when it came to disagreements about LBH but he always incredibly gentlemanly towards me. I will miss him..
|
|
mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
|
Post by mac on Nov 28, 2022 23:07:33 GMT
Remembering that nothing in this battle is static. Company E present at the river at the beginning and they engage with the Indian defenders. Then there is the period of "slow fighting". During this time I have no idea of the movements of C,I,L,F.
Finally Custer decides to withdraw back to the ridges. The final event, as I see it, is Company F firing a few volleys as I said previously. I believe this creates the opportunity for the others to reach the ridges. Company L rides off towards Calhoun Hill. Later C the I follow them. I think Company F have the biggest problem at this point. They have been handed the job of firing to "clear the valley" which leaves them to then try to break away and climb the Northern slope of Battle Ridge Extension.
There have been good reports of two soldiers killed and left in the valley, about where the Trading Post is now. I believe they were men from Company F. I think the pressure on Company F was maintained and eventually, probably just after Company I left, Company F lost their mounts. There are accounts of this and also of a Company forced to run along the ridge with covering fire from Company E supporting their flight. This is how Company F is found at the end of the battle fixed on Last Stand Hill with Custer.
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Nov 29, 2022 12:55:21 GMT
Just heard the sad news that Fred has died. Can't say much more now. Fred Wagner??? Unfortunately yes Pachi
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Nov 29, 2022 14:40:37 GMT
Sorry mac, could reply last night as I thought it would be inappropriate of me.
Running with your theme, if L,C & I, retrograding south, maybe we have the old theory back on track with L in skirmish, C standing to on battle ridge and "I" mounted in the swale. All three sent back after action around the ford d area.
The rest is like the old story with C moving to clear the coolee.
Ian
|
|
mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
|
Post by mac on Dec 1, 2022 10:26:57 GMT
Nice thought Ian, especially as we are discussing locations. However C will not be standing to on Battle Ridge for much time at all. This is one problem with the old theory. If C is on Battle Ridge holding that ground, they are watching the Indian numbers grow and there is no reason for them to leave the high ground. They could simply go to a skirmish line facing the threat. Company I could be up there too. Remember nobody has ever, until now, proposed a believable explanation for why they are in that Low Ground behind Calhoun Hill when all the action is at Calhoun Hill.
So we have, as you rightly point out, the same positions, but in this retrograde south case all the positions make sense. What we are seeing is the final positions of cavalry doing what they are designed to do..moving.
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Dec 1, 2022 13:54:55 GMT
Well Mac, if I was to give an explanation to why the three companies were set up with two mounted and one in skirmish, it may be to wait for Custer to bring up E and F. If Keogh was the man in charge of this move (all conjecture of course), he could have seen the way ahead a death trap for not only his battalion but for the smaller Yates battalion (again only conjecture), if his three companies did make it across then the enemy could be in a better position to re-enforce with more warriors coming down from greasy grass ridge and across ford B.
So would it be such a bad thing to do to hold and wait for all five to smash through, would Keogh (who may have been wounded by now), harbour any thoughts on leaving all the others officers to get cut up trying to cross deep coulee?
Ian
|
|
mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
|
Post by mac on Dec 5, 2022 7:33:37 GMT
Interesting thought Ian. My current thinking is that Custer wanted to unite with Benteen. Remembering that quite possibly Custer assumes Benteen is on his way with the packs, and Reno is still occupying the valley.
It would make sense to me that Custer ordered Company L to move straight off from the valley and contact Benteen, then return with a force to chase off the Indians. Butler was, in my opinion, sent first as a messenger to Benteen. It is possible that Calhoun sent a messenger back to Custer when Gall stopped Calhoun's progress. Companies C and then I may have been sent to help Company L break through as you suggest. The whole thing collapses when Company F lose their mounts.
Important point here is that when Custer first climbs to Last Stand Hill he will initially have a good view back down the ridge to the South and it will probably look quite clear at that stage. Timing!
Cheers
|
|