The Alamo Fell Today

[Elwood]

I found this book on the Greys. Not really a lot out there. Think I will obtain it. Pretty good reviews. Will at least give me some info on the group and some of their personnel.

www.goodreads.com/book/show/2177429.Volunteers_in_the_Texas_Revolution

Of course The Reader is up first.   Should be getting that in a few days.   

[quincannon]

I shall expect a review. I do not know much about them and would like to know more.

[Elwood]

Will do Sir.

[quincannon]

Thank you. I do hope it reveals more about Samuel Holloway.

I would not believe the story that Samuel's ashes were buried at San Fernando Cathedral were I you. I do not know the whole story because there are several versions of it. What I do know is that the Roman Catholic Church of 1836 would have a hissy fit burying a non-Catholic in any sanctified ground, much less remains that were cremated, Alamo Defender or not. In those days they probably would not have interred Jesus Christ because he was a Jew. It is a great story of honor and respect. It is a beautiful, for want of a better term, giant urn. No doubt those ashes inside belong to someone(s). I highly doubt they belong to Alamo Defenders though. Having said that, I wish the story were completely true

[Elwood]

Jul 22, 2023 19:03:22 GMT quincannon said:

I would not believe the story that Samuel's ashes were buried at San Fernando Cathedral were I you. I do not know the whole story because there are several versions of it. What I do know is that the Roman Catholic Church of 1836 would have a hissy fit burying a non-Catholic in any sanctified ground, much less remains that were cremated, Alamo Defender or not. In those days they probably would not have interred Jesus Christ because he was a Jew. It is a great story of honor and respect. It is a beautiful, for want of a better term, giant urn. No doubt those ashes inside belong to someone(s). I highly doubt they belong to Alamo Defenders though. Having said that, I wish the story were completely true

Agreed. Heard several versions of the Alamo defenders remains, where they ended up. Suppose we will never know for certain. Most likely some remains were never gathered despite well intentions of some. It is what it is I guess.

[quincannon]

My best guess is there were two (possibly three) funeral pyres Mister E.

The main one was on the Alameda, today's Commerce Street somewhere near present Saint Joseph's Catholic Church/River Center. There is a marker to that effect in that location. That would make a lot of sense in that Santa Anna's plan was to push the defenders that way into the southeast/chapel corner, from which they exited into the open ground beyond and did battle with the Delores Cavalry who were waiting for them in the darkness in the Alameda.

The second one was probably on present Houston Street, near where the fire house now stands, about a block away from what were then the eastern Alamo walls. That would be consistent with the reported break out conducted through the small gate between the buildings that lined the main plaza. That gate lines up with Houston Street, and the flow of battle seems to suggest that this area was nearly empty of Mexican soldiers at the time. As it was coming on dawn, these folks trying to get our were most probably seen fairly quickly and run down. As a side note, if anyone did escape, and I think that highly probable this would have been the area from which I think they would have had the best chance.

There may have been a third too, and if there was the most likely location would probably be where the Crockett Hotel is now.

As to the location of the Peach Orchard. Somewhere on present Houston Street is my best guess, but only that. There is some mention of a Pecan tree as well, and I do know where that was. It was located on the northwest corner outside the walls, a place now occupied by another hotel whose name escapes me. What makes me think this location is bogus is that Sam Maverick attempted to develop this area with houses. He failed but he did build his own home on the present hotel site, and cut down the pecan tree in the process. Sam Maverick was in a position to know if there had been a funeral pyre or burial site had been there.

Escape, like at LBH is a highly speculative, and speculated about subject. I think it is highly likely as there have been several stories about survivors being taken in only to succumb to either wounds or exposure. My main ally in this is the battle was fought in the dark. A lot of things can happen in the dark, escape from detection being one of them. I also believe none of them survived very long. They were ninety miles minimum from any help, without food, possibly without a weapon, and they were not in great physical shape to begin with. The Texas of 1836 could be a very unfriendly place to a man alone in the wilderness with no resources. Like to hear what you think on this.

[Elwood]

I’ve read that Juan Seguin returned to SA after San Jacinto, gathered the remains as best he could, and interned them in the church, San Fernando. But there’s a story he simply buried the remains himself, possibly near that peach orchard you mentioned. Ruiz, the mayor of Bexar is also said to have buried remains, somewhere. Had never heard the multiple pyres thinking, but considering the logistics, how the bodies were scattered, multiple stories concerning the remains, that makes perfect sense. Could account for much.

As for survivors (combatants), I fall on the side thinking there were none. Santa Anna held troops and calvary in reserve partially to chase down and prevent any escapes. Also, I had never read this, but Edmondson relates a story that 1 Texian made it out of the Alamo but was discovered hiding under a bridge in Bexar later that day, the 6th, around noon. He was promptly executed on the spot, never identified.

[quincannon]

Yes, two or three make more sense than just one.

Read the under the bridge story too and he probably hid there too long, although the bridge was the Commerce Street Bridge and only a block or so away from the compound. There is another story of a survivor getting as far as the gulf coast, but I doubt the validity of that one. Much too far. Supposedly he too died of exposure and was in very bad shape when he was found. More likely he was cast adrift during one of the skirmishes fought before Goliad. Still though I think it likely some did get away temporarily only to die a lonely death out on the prairie. I hang my hat in this on it being dark. Really nothing else of substance.

[quincannon]

Book arrived today. Just thumbed through it but it looks to be fairly comprehensive. Will start on it when I finish McManus.

[Elwood]

Good. Hope you like it, I think you will. Yes, 13 day seige of the Alamo is only a small part of the book. Mainly deals with Alamo’s and Texas’ pre-revolution history as well as the various characters. 1st book on the Alamo I’ve read in several years. The back page says Edmondson is a retired history teacher. Book reads well, as tho you’re talking to someone at the coffee shop, I believe I made that comment earlier.

[quincannon]

Computer got fried. Had to buy a new one. Operational now. Thats the bad news. Good news is that I finished McManus, and started plowing into the Alamo Story. Half way through. My only wish is that I had this book 60 years ago. It tells the complete story. Most Alamo books start at Gonzalez and end at San Jacinto.

I am in your debt sir.

[Elwood]

Well I was hoping you’d like it. Guess I didn’t need to worry. I am simply glad I stumbled onto that book. Browsing at bookstores pays off sometimes. I simply found it incredibly informative and yet easy to read despite the amount of info it has. Enjoy the rest of it.

Sorry about the computer, I suppose these things happen tho.

[quincannon]

The B and the V in how Ursula spelt her name, which I knew about previously, are the little things that tell you that this guy did his research, as opposed to a hack, like most of the people you read that consider themselves accomplished on the subject. I always had a soft spot for Ursula. Somewhere there is a painting of her that has been lost to history. For me it is the Alamo Holy Grail.

[Elwood]

Sounds like she was a real queen. Or should have been.

[quincannon]

Had things turned out differently, who knows. I think Bowie found something in her that is rare, and she in him. He seemed changed after they met and married, and her loss effected him for the rest of his life.