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Post by quincannon on Feb 13, 2018 17:29:16 GMT
The genesis of the excursion to Ford B, predates the Godfrey article in Century. Godfrey tells us so in the text of that article. He also says in that same article that, reflecting upon it, he did not believe anyone went anywhere near it.
Godfrey also tells us that heretofore the common opinion held by those who were there in the aftermath, was nearly identical to the version Sturgis related in the New York Times interview that D25 recently posted here. The Sturgis interview was published a very short time after the battle, so I think we may rightly conclude that the account Sturgis got from those that were there was at the very start of the thinking that Custer approached at B. Sturgis nor Godfrey say anything about Ford D, and books and articles published before about 1970 do not mention it either.
Steve: I never said that I was in a position to determined fact. In fact, I know I am not, and do not attempt to do so. What I said is that no one in in the position to determine fact. THEREFORE and FOR THE LAST FRIGGING TIME
What riles me up is the fact that no one is in a position to determine fact. SO, If no one is in such a position so no one should either write or say something is undisputed fact, when it is not, or leave the reader believing something is undisputed fact. There is nothing wrong with saying I don't know - Here is what I think, but it is not without divergent opinion. All these words get your point across, but still leave the reader free and open to examine what someone else says about the matter.
The trail map you mentioned near Ford B - Who made the map? When was it made? What evidence remained to make them think this trail was used? Where was a mention of a second source that can verify the authenticity of the trail? Anyone can make a map. The map must have provenance to even be considered as good information
Same thing with the Donahue map. He published it without an investigation, and later had to correct a portion of it. He led someone to believe, in this case you, that the information contained therein was fact. Has he published a retraction or a corrected second edition. I don't know, but if he hasn't then that original map that was in error, is still out there influencing people's opinion, and causing them to possibly draw conclusions that are in error. It's called due diligence and responsibility .
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Feb 21, 2018 13:46:27 GMT
Same thing with the Donahue map. He published it without an investigation, and later had to correct a portion of it. He led someone to believe, in this case you, that the information contained therein was fact. Has he published a retraction or a corrected second edition. I don't know, but if he hasn't then that original map that was in error, is still out there influencing people's opinion, and causing them to possibly draw conclusions that are in error. It's called due diligence and responsibility .
I would not know since this a publication of a 2003 symposium conducted by the Custer Battlefield Historical and Museum Association. Last year (2017) was the first time I attended that meeting in Hardin, Montana. Gerry Schultz was giving a presentation regarding Private Peter Thompson. I went to the book sale at the Ford dealership in Hardin. Purchased several items. I purchased several symposium paper collections but not all of them.
Sometimes it gives me investigative leads to help form an opinion. I think a paper is a snapshot in time and I would rather look at the sources used for a particular paper. In this case we should see Donahue's published work coming out this year.
When I did contact Donahue he made it clear to me that it was old incorrect information so I am guessing that the retraction is not new news. I am not buying all the symposium collection of papers at $20+ per. I looked at the papers presented and used that to make my selection.
I think most of these organizations focus more on Custer than just the battle and it leaves a lot to sort through to find what I am looking for regarding information on the battle. This year the Little Big Horn Association is meeting in Gettysburg and I am sure the theme is Custer in Gettysburg.
As for other organizations I think the Friends of the Little Big Horn is close to what we discuss on these boards. They raise money to support the battlefield with field trips. You get to walk to areas not open to the general public and meet some great people. I met Will Hutchison at these events. A Marine and a law enforcement officer. He photographed the artifacts at the battlefield and they are published in his book.
Artifacts of the Battle of Little Bighorn: Custer, the 7th Cavalry & the Lakota and Cheyenne Warriors Aug 28, 2016
For those familiar with the visitor center the indoor theater area was used by Will to do the photos. Tom and I got to talk with him also at LBHA meetings. Will lives in Gettysburg and is helping with the meeting. There is an opportunity to ride in Gettysburg before and after the meeting.
Regards
Steve
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Post by herosrest on Mar 11, 2019 20:12:24 GMT
Long story shortened somewhat in the way that only my levels of expertise can distill sumptious into eloquently digestable (scrumptious). G .E. Lord was replaced by the newly (26th June 1876) promoted Maj. W.D. Wolverton who took up post in the August. He served seven years with the 7th Cavalry and his signature is on several treaties besides sick notes for Thomas H. French during his 1879 Courtmartial. He had been appointed as Assistant Surgeon in the U.S. Army on October 9, 1861, he retired 1898 and made Colonel. Robert E. Doran's review and theory of betrayal at Little Bighorn is entertaining, innovative, thought provoking and refreshingly un-edited to offer a wonderful battle resource which solves more questions than it creates which is unusual for a detailed analysis. Both Doran's knowledge and insights are quite special in very thorough review of a mountain of rarely accessed data. For those who know, what he has done in essence is corroborate the original Cheyenne battle account given to J.D. Miles (Major) in Oklahoma as Southern cheyennes returned to the Indian Territories after Little Bighorn and without pinning the Washita attack strategy to this battles swishey hind quarter. The book is, unfortunately, must read for anyone serious about the battle and thoroughly annoying in being so which is why it is so little respected in the way that W. Kent King's brilliant research in 'Massacre, the Custer Cover-Up' is blighted by conclusion. Doran's detail and quite ruthless insight is incisive. He is conspiratorial in a refreshingly take it or leave it way and is to be respected. Wagner on steroids. lHorsemanship at Little Big HornSgt. David Cooney Doran was of opinion that Cooney's promotion was made by Terry. Cooney, David 28 – Private – I – Cork – 5’5¾”, grey eyes, dark hair, fair complexion (died of wounds, Fort Abraham Lincoln, 20 July 1876, name not on battle monument) This is not just another Custer Book. Authors in the past have concentrated on the prejudices of the human participants. This study of how the U.S. Army trained their men and horses grew out of a research project for a reenactment-riding group in Northern Utah It turned into a how raw recruits were turned into good horsemen and a deeper understanding of the magnificent world of horses. It also soon introduced the author to ownership of a horse and learning to ride like a cavalryman. This training and the deployment tactics that were developed by the Old Army helped to shape the Custer Fight.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Mar 12, 2019 11:00:19 GMT
The only Col. Wolverton I could find???
Lt. Col. Robert Lee "Bull" Wolverton was the commander of the American 3rd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, from 1942 until his death at Saint-Côme-du-Mont, Normandy, on D-Day, June 6, 1944, during World War II [1] [2].
Part of the same regiment to which belonged the legendary "Band of Brothers," Wolverton's men fought in the epic Operation Overlord, Operation Market Garden and Battle of the Bulge in Bastogne.
Despite being killed before landing on French soil (Order of battle for the American airborne landings in Normandy), Wolverton's legacy endured, particularly on the strength of a prayer spoken to the 750 men in his battalion hours before the D-Day parachute drop behind enemy lines.
"God almighty, in a few short hours we will be in battle with the enemy. We do not join battle afraid. We do not ask favors or indulgence but ask that, if You will, use us as Your instrument for the right and an aid in returning peace to the world. We do not know or seek what our fate will be. We ask only this, that if die we must, that we die as men would die, without complaining, without pleading and safe in the feeling that we have done our best for what we believed was right. Oh Lord, protect our loved ones and be near us in the fire ahead and with us now as we pray to you."
Wolverton's words were cited by President Ronald Reagan in a 1984 speech from Normandy on the 40th anniversary of the invasion [3] and recounted in numerous books and in Newsweek and Associated Press stories on a battalion reunion held in Kansas City on the first D-Day anniversary after the war .
Just kidding the Major, later Col., is mentioned in the Courts Martial papers of Captain Thomas French.
Regards, Tom
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