War is a weird business

[Deleted]

A battle was fought on Los Negros island in the Pacific during WW2. Japanese forces conducted a counterattack against US beachhead.

Extract from official CMH History:
Lieutenant Henshaw's platoon, fighting behind a well-defended revetment, took the brunt of several of the heavy atttacks on Troop G. The Japanese who got through the interlocking machine-gun fire and the enfilade fire from Troop F on the left tried to climb over the dead, straight up the west side of the revetment. They were cut down with machine-gun and rifle fire and grenades. Very few ever got over the revetment. The next morning 68 bodies were found around the position.

Although the attacks against the north flank, especially against Troop G, were almost overwhelming in size and frequency, many were uncoordinated attempts, and completely ineffective as long as our troops had ammunition. One column of Japanese came down the Porlaka road about an hour before daylight singing "Deep in the Heart of Texas." They were killed by antipersonnel mines and devastating small-arms fire from every gun in the emplacements. Subsequent examination of their bodies indicated that they were not under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.

[deadwoodgultch]

Societal differences?

[yanmacca]

Here is a clip from youtube, showing the landings on Los Negros, it also shows Japanese dead piled up, which could be that counter attack which you noted in your posts.

link

[Deleted]

I am just picturing a platoon or squad leader. You have been holding off attacks all night. Now an hour before dawn a column comes right down the road singing Deep in the Heart of Texas. Imagine radioing that back to BN HQ? They would think you were using whacky tobacky.


By the way, 2/7 Cav reinforced the beachhead right after this. This means companied E,F,G and H fought there.

With better outcomes than under GAC.

[quincannon]

Actually the force was 2nd Squadron, 7th Cavalry, Combat Team. In addition to the forces Montrose listed they also had Weapons Troop, 7th Cavalry and some engineers (probably from 8th Engineer Squadron- but not sure)

"Deep in the Heart of Texas" may also have been a way of telling 2/7CSCT we know where you came from and it is our intention to send you back there.

All through the war the Japanese consistently proved themselves to be very American centric, and followed American pop culture of the day very closely, especially music, cowboy movies, and baseball.

I am sort of at a loss as to where the narrator of the film got the idea that these were "mechanized" cavalrymen though, unless shoe leather constitutes mechanization.

The 7th Cavalry Regiment of that day, like the rest of the 1st Cavalry Division was organized partially under cavalry and partially under Infantry tables of organization. Troops A-C, and E-G were rifle troops, while Troops D and H were weapons troops, identical to the weapons companies in any Infantry battalion. In addition there was a regimental weapons troop (the equivalent of an Infantry regiment cannon company) and a service troop. It should also be noted that the cavalry squadrons of that time did not have a headquarters troop, but rather a headquarters detachment (a smaller, less capable unit of about platoon size). Squadron headquarters detachments would become Headquarters Troops, and Weapons Troop became Cannon Troop in 1945. The weapons troop of the squadrons and the regimental weapons troop were organized in the 7 (Infantry) TO&E series. Cavalry regiments of that time only contained two squadrons. It would not be until 1949 that the third, by that time battalion, were reconstituted, and not until 1950 that they were activated.

In addition the engineer and medical battalions of the 1st Cavalry Division were designated as squadrons, indicating that they were originally horse mounted.

I thought I would write all this now to save Ian the trouble of asking the questions

[yanmacca]

You took the words right out of my mouth Chuck [just like the meatloaf song].

When I was looking at that film clip I noticed that the artillery was all 75mm pack howitzers, all except what looked like anti-aircraft guns, now I wonder if these were captured Japanese pieces used in a ground support role against their former owners.

[Beth]

I wonder if the Japanese were hoping to get close enough to attack or to disguise themselves to get away-either way I can kind of get an idea of the radio chatter it would involve. Perhaps it would worked better if they hadn't chose a Texas song.

[quincannon]

The pack howitzers were from the regimental weapons troop, and the AAA was from another unit that I cannot identify.

The mission was to conduct a reconnaissance on Los Negros. The first unit to land was a squadron combat team 2/5CSCT. They were to conduct that recon to see if there was too much enemy resistance on the island. If so they were to withdraw. That was found not to be the case and 2/7CSCT was landed to reinforce then seize the island. The AAA was a follow on to that second package, with a mission to provide AAA protection to the SEABEE's that were to put the airstrip back in operation and get it ready for close support aircraft.

There is a book put out in paperback form by CMH on the Admiralties Campaign that goes into great detail. It is in much more detail than the Green Book official history. I used to have it. Don't know if I still do. It is one of their better written monographs and I think still available from the Government Printing Office.

The 1st Cavalry Division did a lot of funny things concerning task organization. The four regimental headquarters were in fact a waste of flesh in that division. They were square, with two brigades, each of two regiments (each having two squadrons). They most often operated though with each of those eight squadrons operating directly under those two brigade headquarters, and the regimental headquarters usually being superfluous.

What is interesting here in the Los Negros operation is that 2/5 and 2/7 were part of different brigades and they were commanded by the CO of the 1st Brigade BG William C Chase.

You see this same thing in most of the 1st CD operations in the Philippines as well. It was very much like what you see with the "heavy" armored divisions (2nd and 3rd) in Europe. Those armored regimental headquarters had little to do as their battalions were attached to the two combat commands.

Had the two heavy armored divisions and the 1st CD had an opportunity to be reorganized it would probably have been one that did away with the regimental headquarters altogether. In the instance of the 1st CD it would have probably been along the lines of separate squadrons operating under two or perhaps three brigades. I have seen in the CMH files versions of both, that were never implemented of course.

[quincannon]

No Beth. It was a version of Babe Ruth Go To Hell.

I would bet the rent money that the Japanese knew just who these guys were, where they had come from (Fort Bliss, Texas)and were using that song exclusively as a Psyops tool. The Japanese were very good at that sort of thing. Just like at Bastogne where the Germans would endlessly play "I Surrender Dear" over their loudspeakers. Music has a psychological value in combat. If it succeeds in taking one enemy soldiers eye off the ball the effort is worth it. Most of those 1st CD troopers would have much rather been back in El Paso than some god forsaken jungle island in the Admiralties with someone shooting at them. In combat you play every card in the deck.

[yanmacca]

Chuck if the 1st cavalry was set up like you said then they would be classed as “Binary” [in twos], Square means in fours and triangular threes.

The two AA units I can find which served in this campaign are;
C Battery, 168th Anti-Aircraft Battalion (Gun)
A Battery, 211th Anti-Aircraft Battalion (AW)

This is a good site and features a longer more graphic version of that clip I posted, which was a flag waver [also I notice a soldier carrying a SMLE, so maybe he was an Aussie serving with your guys.

link

Here is a snap shot I took of those AA Guns in the clip, and they are defiantly American and not captured Japanese, they are in fact 90mm M1A1s

link

The snap shot;

[quincannon]

We only sent three divisions to a combat theater during WWII in the square configuration. The 1st and 2nd Cavalry Divisions and the 27th Infantry Division. Of those only the 1st Cavalry remained in, and entered combat as a square division. The 2nd Cavalry went to North Africa and was broken up into engineer, transport, and service units just as they arrived. The 27th Infantry was due to convert to a triangular division before it left for Hawaii. Instead, the Hawaiian Department expecting a square division, said send them, we need them now, we will reorganize them when they get here.

All of the National Guard divisions 26-41 and 43-45 were called to active duty as square divisions. They remained so for the first year of their service. They were only authorized by law to be called up for a period of one year, That was extended to the duration of the emergency in I think October 1941. Before that date with their time of active service uncertain, the Department of the Army and the National Guard Bureau were reluctant to reorganize these divisions, because they would have had to go back to the States and coordinate any action with them. Once 7 December rolled around and war was declared, those troops belonged to the Army with no restriction. The divisions started to reorganize in February-March 1942, and what you see then is a bunch of separate regimental combat teams created with the left over fourth regiments. Some stayed that way, others went on to become the third regiments in Regular Army divisions, and still three more would form the Americal Division in New Caledonia

[yanmacca]

You said that the 1st cavalry was square and it contained two brigades, each of two regiments each having two squadrons, which is binary as there are two brigades, two regiments and two squadrons, everything is double so it is binary.

If it was square then surly it would contain four regiments.
If it was a triangular division then it would contain three regiments.

The Italians used the binary system early in the second world war for their infantry divisions, these had two regiments and known as "divisione binaria"

[quincannon]

They were called square. The square is based on the four regiments.

The triangular division was called triangular because it was based on three regiments.

Disabuse you mind of the idea that US Army divisions contained any brigades after April 1942 with the exception of the 1st and 2nd Cavalry Divisions.

A brigade is a tactical headquarters only. The regiments in that day were both tactical and administrative headquarters. Therefore you only need one or the other, not both. In WWI when American divisions were first designed you needed both. Needing both was because of how those divisions were designed to be employed, one brigade behind the other. This is what I meant when I spoke about Pershing never wanting to fight that way again. Beginning in 1937, based upon a lot of doctrine and design work in the 20's and 30's the 2nd Division was experimentally converted to a triangular division, where typically two regiments would be up and the third reserved to exploit gains. We rejected the idea of trench warfare, and wanted to open up the battlefield. That could not be done with the old two brigade, four regiment set up.

The cavalry, God bless those lovers of horse shit clean up, said no. We need to retain two brigades of two regiments, so that each of those brigades can cover different areas of the army frontage. That of course is percolated poop, for if that is what they needed, and it was why not just do away with the division and organize cavalry into brigades, or stronger regiments. I have seen proposals for both of those measures, that were never adopted also in CMH files.

There is one thing regarding the cavalry of that period that you must heed and internalize. John K. Herr, a former commander of the 7th Cavalry and the Chief of Cavalry during the period, was, like the Queen's Musketeer, a complete idiot. As late as 1953 he was still calling for the remounting of the 1st Cavalry Division on horses. Once war was declared and Marshall had nearly unlimited powers one of the first things he did was do away with the Branch Chiefs, (Infantry, Cavalry etc.) and that was mainly to get rid of Herr.

It is OK to study guns and such but to understand armies you must first understand army politics.

[yanmacca]

Jun 3, 2017 16:36:28 GMT quincannon said:

The 1st Cavalry Division did a lot of funny things concerning task organization. The four regimental headquarters were in fact a waste of flesh in that division. They were square, with two brigades, each of two regiments (each having two squadrons). They most often operated though with each of those eight squadrons operating directly under those two brigade headquarters, and the regimental headquarters usually being superfluous.

Chuck, I was only repeating what you wrote, I never gave any dates as such, so your army ditched the brigades in 1942 is not the issue.
I do study weapons, and I will never reach your standard on how the American army works, but I only pointed out that if you have two regiments then it is not a square formation.

[quincannon]

Yes that is what I wrote. It was accurate.

Also look at what I wrote about what the optimal employment of cavalry. The cavalry division itself, by that I mean the need for the division headquarters element was not necessary at all ever since WWI. Cavalry was meant to be employed as screening forces over wide fronts, at either army or corps levels. For that you do not need a cavalry division headquarters. What you need at most is a brigade, but more likely a regiment, which morphed into cavalry groups.

That is why the 2nd Cavalry Division was broken up when it landed in North Africa, no need. That is why all of the non divisional cavalry were the only ones employed in the cavalry mission, screening, reconnaissance, economy of force.

The 1st Cavalry Division would have also been broken up, just like the 2nd, had it not been for MacArthur who requested that division specifically for the South Pacific. MacArthur had some previous connection with the 1st Cav. I have never discovered what that connection was, he was never assigned to the division. Regardless he requested it, and wanted it pronto. They deployed to Australia where they were beefed up with the addition of those squadron and regimental weapons troops I spoke about yesterday. They also had their artillery beefed up. For all intents and purposes they were nothing more than an Infantry division with a unique, one of a kind, organization. They would remain that way until 1949 when they became triangular, just like all the other Infantry divisions. They were MacArthur's very favorite division and during their time in Japan were charged with the security of Tokyo, including MacArthur's headquarters and the Imperial Palace.

After the war the division was again scheduled to be disbanded, as there was no need for a cavalry division. This time Eisenhower as Chief of Staff saved it, inserting the 1st CD into the order of precedence in the Infantry series. After Korea the Army wanted to reorganize the 1st CD as an armored division, and there was so much hell raised by the division association which was and has always been a strong political force, that the proposal was stopped.

Army Politics

In the U S Army there are untouchable divisions - 1st ID, 1st CD, 82nd ABD, and 101st ABD. When you ever see any one of them go away, the whole U s Army will not be far behind. Each one of those divisions is so politically powerful, and I mean up on the Hill powerful, that it is impossible to do anything with them. The second tier of political power is the 2nd ID, 3rd ID, and the 25th ID.