|
|
Post by Beth on May 31, 2017 23:54:22 GMT
I believe I saw that show too. I find the technology very interesting. Ah to be young again and brave enough to chose studying history instead of something 'practical.'
|
|
|
|
Post by mlynn on Jun 1, 2017 0:59:07 GMT
Mary Camp Sumter, aka Andersonville, was not established till early in 1864 and the majority of the Union prisoners were transferred from around the Richmond, VA vicinity. The 8th Iowa Infantry was at: "Battle of Shiloh, Tenn., April 6-7. Most of Regiment captured. Men confined at Macon, Ga.; Officers at Selma, Ala., and Madison, Ga. Paroled October 18, 1862. Exchanged November 10, 1862, Those not captured attached to Union Brigade and participated in advance on and siege of Corinth, Miss., April 29-May 30." This is excerpted from Iowa units page listed below. The 8th was in W. H. L. Wallace's 2nd Division, Sweeny's 3rd Brigade and was captured while defending the "Hornet's Nest" in the center of the Union lines on the first day of the battle. I have listed a site below which has the Federal Order of Battle. I hope this is of some assistance to you as I enjoy sharing information with others. Regards Dave www.civilwararchive.com/Unreghst/uniainf1.htm#1stinfwww.civilwarhome.com/shilohorderofbattleunion.html |
|
|
|
Post by mlynn on Jun 1, 2017 1:01:34 GMT
Thanks Dave, I knew he found at the Hornet's Nest. We found the marker on the battlefield. Thanks for the information about Andersonville. After finding out about Andersonville from the movie, I became interested and read up on it but did not remember the dates. I have been there twice, once by myself and another time I took my sister.
|
|
|
|
Post by mlynn on Jun 1, 2017 1:08:43 GMT
I believe I saw that show too. I find the technology very interesting. Ah to be young again and brave enough to chose studying history instead of something 'practical.' You know I didn't really get into studying history until I started to travel. I would go places and have questions so, I would go home and read about it. Once I got into it, I was so excited to learn more and more. Now, a lot of what I read is redundant so, I have gotten into reading about English and Russian history. So much to explore and so little time As far as college was concerned, like I stated before, I stretched my degree over 9 years. I started with a AA in Liberal Arts and wanted to get the BA in history. That was the plan but, life happens and Maytag closed and I needed a job. So, I got it in business, which I hated doing. I had 5 more years to work before I could retire and it served me well. |
|
dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679 
|
Post by dave on Jun 1, 2017 1:19:42 GMT
Mary
I don't believe in 'haints but while at Andersonville I felt my chest constricting as if I were wrapped in chains. The whole prison camp area and cemetery invoked powerful feelings of sadness and depression. I believe part of my reactions may have been due to the fact that my GG Grandfather died at the Union POW camp on Hart Island in NYC. I have seen the island in the distance but there is a no admittance policy so I can not step on it.
Regards
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by mlynn on Jun 1, 2017 2:56:12 GMT
Mary I don't believe in 'haints but while at Andersonville I felt my chest constricting as if I were wrapped in chains. The whole prison camp area and cemetery invoked powerful feelings of sadness and depression. I believe part of my reactions may have been due to the fact that my GG Grandfather died at the Union POW camp on Hart Island in NYC. I have seen the island in the distance but there is a no admittance policy so I can not step on it. Regards Dave I know what you mean. I had similar feelings when I went by myself. I think part of it was how it is located in the middle of nowhere. I was there early in the morning on a weekday and I was the only one there. Later, after I had gone through the cemetery, there were several people in the building getting ready to tour the grounds. That is exactly how I like to tour historical places. It give a person peace and time to reflect what happened there. |
|
dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by dave on Jun 1, 2017 3:15:22 GMT
Andersonville is unique as it was a scene of carnage and death against helpless individuals as compared to a battlefield such as Gettysburg. Sadly part of the story deals with the prisoners turning upon and abusing their own inside the fences. The Confederates guarding the camp were in not much better shape than the POWs as about 20% of the 1,000 plus guards died of sickness. All in all that piece of Georgia was cursed as a site of human suffering on a terrible scale.
Camp Douglas the Union POW prison had a death rate of about 20% due to weather conditions, sickness and poor treatment. Looking at how Americans treated other Americans---though rebelling against the government---in POW camps, both Confederate and Union, just shows the great bitterness between the sides.
Regards
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by yanmacca on Jun 1, 2017 11:33:36 GMT
Dave, that bitterness will go with time, as we had two major wars over here plus loads of different battles with certain people trying to claim the throne, but the war of the roses and the English civil war were bloody affairs, but we got over it.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 1, 2017 12:53:09 GMT
One of the most interesting aspects of Shiloh is the chess match leading up to the battle, beginning on or about 11 March. My knowledge of the western theater is limited so I am sure to be corrected.
Also an interesting visit is Point Lookout MD, a prisoner of war camp located at the convergence of the Potomac River and the Chesapeake Bay.
|
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jun 1, 2017 15:05:37 GMT
Perhaps you did not know Tom that Parole, a suburb of Annapolis, where the Annapolis ARNG Armory is was where those prisoners were paroled, from another camp near Annapolis, thus the name.
POW camps are never very nice places regardless of what war anyone is talking about
|
|
dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by dave on Jun 1, 2017 15:32:59 GMT
Ian You are quite correct as to the bitterness will decline but our War was unlike the War of Roses and the English Civil War as it was racially based on slavery. The closest comparison---remember I am but an amature history buff---would be to the treatment of the Saxons, Celts, Welsh, Jutes and Angles by the Normans as conquered serfs. The native Britons were maltreated for centuries based on their ethnicity not character similar to the treatment of Blacks, not only in the South. The metamorphosis we are undergoing today was hastened by the actions of Dylan Roof in 2015. The killing of nine innocent people solely because of their race sparked a wave of change throughout America but especially the South. Hoary symbols of the Confederacy were and are under attack and action was taken to remove statues and especially the Confederate Flag, the Battle Standard of the Army of Northern Virginia. Arizona, Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri and Montana have Confederate memorials and cemeteries. The University of Louisville just recently removed a statute of a Confederate soldier to an off campus location and the city of New Orleans has finished relocating 4 Confederate memorials and the city of Memphis is endeavoring to remove the body of Nathan Bedford Forrest and his wife from a park named for him located in downtown. This movement is creating great angst for everyone as we as a people are grappling with history, heritage and hate. Organizations such as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the American Civil Liberties Union are seeking judicial reforms and actions to remove all Confederate memorials from public properties such as citys, universities and state parks such as Stone Mountain outside of Atlanta. The resistance to these actions comes from groups such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans and historical organizations for each state to save their state's history. Also unfortunately there are hate groups on both sides which only cause additional problems with no offers of solutions. To give an example of how Homeric this project of removing all Confederate symbols and memorials is I will use just the University of Mississippi. 1) Ole Miss has the ubiquitous Confederate Statue with the famous quote of Leonidas on the back: "Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws we lie." but the university in an attempt to include all students and members of the community have placed context plaque at the base. I have included the content of the plaque below. 2) We have a cemetery on campus which contains the remains of over 400 Confederate and a few Union soldiers established after the Battle of Shiloh as Rebel forces withdrew from the Corinth area. How could all of these exhumed when there is no record of who is buried where as there are no markers. I have listed a site below for more info on the cemetery. 3) In Ventress Hall is a set of 3 stained glass windows dedicated to the "University Greys", Company A, 11th Mississippi Infantry composed of Ole Miss students primarily. I have included a site below which has views of these windows. So here we are with the great debate of Heritage vs Hate. A most difficult problem as symbols carry powerful emotions and I understand that ones perceived to be racially insensitive would be desired to remove yet were in this discussion is history and the story of our nation and her people? How do we determine which symbols should be removed and which should not? Will there be a movement to remove Confederate statues and memorials from National Military Parks? Got any suggestions that would enable this process to move more smoothly? Regards Dave hottytoddy.com/2014/08/06/confederate-cemetery-speaks-to-compassion-of-oxford-tragedy-of-war/www.google.com/search?q=stained+glass+window+ventress+hall&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjKlJDL95zUAhWEz4MKHR1OCG8QsAQIMQ&biw=1094&bih=511 |
|
dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by dave on Jun 1, 2017 15:52:38 GMT
One of the most interesting aspects of Shiloh is the chess match leading up to the battle, beginning on or about 11 March. My knowledge of the western theater is limited so I am sure to be corrected. Also an interesting visit is Point Lookout MD, a prisoner of war camp located at the convergence of the Potomac River and the Chesapeake Bay. Tom are you referring to Lincoln removing McClellan from his position of General in Chief of all Union armies or a couple days later when Halleck reappointed Grant as commander of the Army of the Tennessee? Halleck was an insecure man with visions of glory beyond his abilities and very jealous of Grant's success at Fort Donelson. Don't forget about the "Immortal Six Hundred" imprisoned at Fort Pulaski in Savannah, Georgia as this was a very sad affair which showed the bitterness between the sides in the ACW. Regards Dave |
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Jun 2, 2017 0:55:30 GMT
Dave, I think that UT came up with a good solution by moving the Confederate statutes to in an area full of other statues of historic people, in front of the history center. Not gone or forgotten but put into some sort of historic perspective.
|
|
dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by dave on Jun 2, 2017 2:08:53 GMT
Beth
The problem as I see it is one of balance. The state of Mississippi paid to erect the only memorial to Black men, at Vicksburg National Military Park who served in the various regiments of United States Colored Troops specifically the 1st and 3rd Mississippi Infantry of African Descent . Neither the Federal government or states which registered USCTs units has placed a memorial to these men on any National Military Park. Only Mississippi has erected one!
That is one memorial compared to the hundred of Confederate Soldier statues in Southern towns and some universities. The racial changes undergone and continuing to impact the South are momentous just in my life time. The symbols of the Confederacy cause great hurt and dissension among African Americans while most whites fail to see hatred but rather heritage being displayed. How do we as a society address this problem in a peaceful and productive manner? That is the ongoing discussion. The Mississippi flag which has the Confederate battle flag saltire is the only state flag to have a Rebel symbol. In 2001, a referendum was held to change the flag but was defeated by a 64% majority. So what do we do 16 years later post Dylan Roof? Perhaps there will be a proposal once again to change the flag to a more appropriate one but it will need a political agreement. The Mississippi House of representatives is 29% African American while the Senate is 30% out of a state wide percentage of about 37%.
The solution you mentioned at UT would not be feasible in most small towns struggling with infrastructure repairs and other pressing needs on limited budgets. Of course the only reasonable solution is all parties sharing feelings, positions and ideas in a positive manner while listening to each other. I understand how reminders of slavery and its times is hurtful and distasteful but we can not remove all reminders of our shared history in a hurry and pull them out of the ground fashion. I frankly do not have the answer but pray we will have leaders who can solve these issues.
Regards
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Jun 2, 2017 4:02:45 GMT
Lets not kill another thread with current events. I agree I continued with the comment about UT but we really need to move the conversation back to the Mississippi River Campaign in general and Shiloh in specific. I have told Mary you are the go to guy about Shiloh, don't let me down.
Mary what I don't think has been mentioned in at least 2 or 3 days is that my GG Grandfather was a fatality at Shiloh, as my brother (Brian) says, he pretty much stepped off the bus and died within a few feet. Dave can confirm or not probably if it was the same aspect of the battle as your GGGrandfather was taken prison.
|
|
