Battle of Shiloh/Pittsburg Landing April 6 – 7, 1862

[dave]

The whole Vicksburg campaign was filled with hundreds of miles of back roads, cow paths and swamps. The scale of the movement of Union troops is impressive when you realize it extended from Memphis to New Orleans on the Mississippi and from Nashville to Shiloh to Oxford to Jackson to Vicksburg. The Southern RR that ran through Vicksburg across the rive to Richmond, LA was the last connection between the Eastern and Western Confederacy and its loss was the beginning of the death knell of the South.

Grants famous canal project to divert the Mississippi River was a spectacular failure but was an attempt to bypass Vicksburg defenses which along with Port Hudson, La were the only Confederate bastions left on the river. Ironically the Mississippi River itself cut a new channel near Grant's canal in 1876! 

I wish I could have joined you on your jaunt through LA and maybe one day we can meet in Vicksburg and you can bring your cousin with you. If you have never been to the National Park, the USS Cairo museum and the Warren County Museum it is well worth the drive, I promise.
It is nice to have a thread that is not about modern day politics and the bad behavior of all.
Regards
Dave

PS Just a quick aside, Vicksburg did not celebrate the 4th of July Holiday till 1945 due to the belief, however true or not, that the Union gunboats and Grant's artillery deliberately shelled the city itself and the civilian population instead of the Confederate defensive lines.

[mlynn]

Dave,
I was going to visit Vicksburg on this trip but a main water line broke and the whole city did not have water. I called the park and they said they did not know how long they would be open. So I came home (Texas). I was looking forward to finding what was left of the canal and seeing if there was an example of the caves the civilians lived in during the siege. I also read up on the USS Cairo and was looking forward to seeing the museum. I am fairly new to exploring the South because I just moved here from Iowa a year ago. I have been to Shiloh, where my great, great grandfather fought. I have spent many years exploring the East and have been to Gettysburg 4 times.

I will be going back to visit Vicksburg asap but I don't travel much in the summer because of the heat and the crowds. I like thin crowds so I can stop and reflect on what has happened on each spot. I will be traveling to New Mexico in October but, I may hook up a trip back to Vicksburg in November when I drive back to Iowa for Thanksgiving.

[Beth]

Mary, I didn't realize that you too had a great, great grandfather at Shiloh. Mine was in Iowa 16th Infantry Regiment Company D. Dave knows Shiloh like the back of his hand. (we should take further conversation to the Civil War thread.) If there is enough interest I can give Shiloh it's own sub board or a perhaps it would be better to have more general one for Tennessee battles.

[mlynn]

May 31, 2017 2:23:19 GMT Beth said:

Mary, I didn't realize that you too had a great, great grandfather at Shiloh. Mine was in Iowa 16th Infantry Regiment Company D. Dave knows Shiloh like the back of his hand. (we should take further conversation to the Civil War thread.) If there is enough interest I can give Shiloh it's own sub board or a perhaps it would be better to have more general one for Tennessee battles.

That's interesting, Beth.  I will have to ask Cathy under what Infantry/Company he served.  Sadly, I don't remember.  I believe he was captured.  Cathy went with me to Shiloh and we explored where he would of fought.  It was a great trip.  Would it be something, if they served together?  I do have a picture of him and know he played the "fiddle" in camps for entertainment.

I would be interested in a Shiloh sub board.  

[Beth]

If you want to send me the name I might be able to find out thanks to 3fold and ancestory. I suspect that it would be better to go by Mississippi River Campaign-it's a case of perhaps there is too small of an interest in just Shiloh but the Mississippi River Campaign could justify a whole board and give Dave a chance to dazzle us with his local knowledge. I have given over to the inevitable that there is too much interest in the Civil War to give it just one bit of space.

[Beth]

"The scenes on this field would have cured anybody of war." - William T. Sherman in a letter to his wife Ellen on April 11, 1862

[deadwoodgultch]

Yeah, I was hoping the Red River Valley was not being equated to the Deep Ravine or another valley. I thought I was going to see yellow print telling us that would explain to us that if Reno had moved down the valley like the Union Army traversed the Red River Valley, Custer would have been spared his fate.

[dave]

Mary
I am sorry that you were prevented by the water main failure compounded by the flooding of the Mississippi from visiting Vicksburg which contaminated the water supply. Maybe in the November we can join up but only if we give Beth enough time to get her Conestoga Wagon prepared for the trip!

Mary, unfortunately there is very little evidence that the canal ever existed but I have listed a site below which is the only segment left of this monumental effort. Unless one has ever been around the vast Mississippi and seen its power it is hard to imagine how futile this effort was. The combination of the "gumbo" mud, plant/tree/shrub growth, the heat, mosquitoes carrying malaria, snakes and other critters doomed this project before it ever began.

As to any whether any caves still exist I have attached the web site of a discussion group which covers this matter and provides some answers.

Beth
I think it is a wonderful idea to create the threads the way you did as the ACW (you like that better Chuck?) set the stage for the LBH as it trained the officers and leadership. I don't know the number but I am sure many of our members are also interested in the War that established the United States as we have it today.
Regards
Dave

www.nps.gov/vick/learn/historyculture/grants-canal.htm

www.nps.gov/vick/planyourvisit/cave.htm

[quincannon]

As a matter of fact I do like it better, much better.

It was never "THE" war. It was "A" war, and the sooner the lessons are learned and absorbed from "THAT" war the better, and its time to move on, keeping always in mind that like "ALL" wars those lessons must occasionally be referred back to, but "ONLY" to reinforce our forward progress.

[mlynn]

May 31, 2017 2:39:27 GMT mlynn said:

May 31, 2017 2:23:19 GMT Beth said:

Mary, I didn't realize that you too had a great, great grandfather at Shiloh. Mine was in Iowa 16th Infantry Regiment Company D. Dave knows Shiloh like the back of his hand. (we should take further conversation to the Civil War thread.) If there is enough interest I can give Shiloh it's own sub board or a perhaps it would be better to have more general one for Tennessee battles.

That's interesting, Beth.  I will have to ask Cathy under what Infantry/Company he served.  Sadly, I don't remember.  I believe he was captured.  Cathy went with me to Shiloh and we explored where he would of fought.  It was a great trip.  Would it be something, if they served together?  I do have a picture of him and know he played the "fiddle" in camps for entertainment.

I would be interested in a Shiloh sub board.  

My great great grandfather's name was Leander Eddy and he was in the 8th regiment.  Most of his regiment was captured and sent to Macon, George.  I know this is an area where the notorious Andersonville prison was and I would like to know if he was there or in another prison.  I can find out more from Cathy.

[Beth]

(Discussion moved from Deep Ravine to Shiloh)  Mlynn posted:

Excellent discussion here. I can appreciate it more because I have recently returned from the Red River area around Natchitoches, LA where I was trying to follow paths the Union Army took from New Orleans to Vicksburg in the ACW. I quickly learned of the geographical changes, both natural and man made, which made tracing the path confusing. Thinking of this trip, I found this discussion especially interesting on how hard it is to write or recreate historical events after many years has gone by. But, I have to say that it is fun hunting for those landmarks that are not obvious anymore.

[dave]

Mary
Camp Sumter, aka Andersonville, was not established till early in 1864 and the majority of the Union prisoners were transferred from around the Richmond, VA vicinity. 

The 8th Iowa Infantry was at:
"Battle of Shiloh, Tenn., April 6-7. Most of Regiment captured. Men confined at Macon, Ga.; Officers at Selma, Ala., and Madison, Ga. Paroled October 18, 1862. Exchanged November 10, 1862, Those not captured attached to Union Brigade and participated in advance on and siege of Corinth, Miss., April 29-May 30." This is excerpted from Iowa units page listed below. The 8th was in W. H. L. Wallace's 2nd Division, Sweeny's 3rd Brigade and was captured while defending the "Hornet's Nest" in the center of the Union lines on the first day of the battle. I have listed a site below which has the Federal Order of Battle. I hope this is of some assistance to you as I enjoy sharing information with others.
Regards
Dave

www.civilwararchive.com/Unreghst/uniainf1.htm#1stinf
www.civilwarhome.com/shilohorderofbattleunion.html

[Beth]

Dave, long ago I saw a show about how they used satellite imagery to find which of two paths a Union Army took over the river. I remember that it was an extremely large army so I suspect that it had to be Sherman's. It's one of the reasons I suspect you would see traditional Native American routes through places like the Rosebud and Little Bighorn valleys.

While looking for anything to support what I remember I can across a lot of information I thought you would be interested in like this article www.usnews.com/science/articles/2009/11/29/science-digs-into-civil-war-sites

The type of satillite imagry I find most interesting is called LIDAR.  Here is an example of how they are using it at the Battle of the Crater  Every day new things are being discovered about even ancient civilizations thanks to LIDAR and other scientific discoveries.

Of course LIDAR isn't the only type of imagery that can be used but I find it very interesting. 

[dave]

Isn't science amazing? Thank you for the info and sites.
I would imagine that Shiloh would be a great study as there has been little change to the filed since 1862.
Regards
Dave

[mlynn]

May 31, 2017 22:02:28 GMT Beth said:

Dave, long ago I saw a show about how they used satellite imagery to find which of two paths a Union Army took over the river. I remember that it was an extremely large army so I suspect that it had to be Sherman's. It's one of the reasons I suspect you would see traditional Native American routes through places like the Rosebud and Little Bighorn valleys.

While looking for anything to support what I remember I can across a lot of information I thought you would be interested in like this article www.usnews.com/science/articles/2009/11/29/science-digs-into-civil-war-sites

The type of satillite imagry I find most interesting is called LIDAR.  Here is an example of how they are using it at the Battle of the Crater  Every day new things are being discovered about even ancient civilizations thanks to LIDAR and other scientific discoveries.

Of course LIDAR isn't the only type of imagery that can be used but I find it very interesting. 

I saw a special on PBS on this new satellite archaeology use.  It was featuring images of ancient Egypt.  It was fascinating.  They were finding spots of disturbed geometrical images that could not be recognized on land.  This saves exploring time and preserves the land from being disturbed unnecessarily.