No 1 defensible position

[dave]

Beth

Banning never works for as the Bard said
“but at the length truth will out.”

I have been banned from several places, one or two which served alcoholic beverages, but never from a pseudo academic site which purports to be a source of serious study of the event and participants of the Little Big Horn in 1876. I was not banned per say just not allowed to post any comments or send PMs unless I cared to have the moderator do it for me.

When a person who plays “dress up” stands in front of a mirror saying “pin a medal on me and make it hurt” and exchanging salutes with the image pretends to be a member of the 7th Cavalry under Custer that is comical but harmless. Yet when that individual presents himself as a qualified scholar based on that pretend career as soldier it is no longer funny but dangerous. Serious harm is done by fabricators who unchallenged spew their fabricated “history.”

This board and its participants have an opportunity to express their views and beliefs but must be prepared to defend their positions sometimes in vigorous, but courteous, debate. Historical events must be scrupulously studied to determine the truth not what we want it to be. Presentation of this scholarship is responsibility of the student who is endeavoring to better themselves and society.
Regards
Dave
I apologize if I have gone too far but I detest liars and their efforts!

[quincannon]

The Sicilian expression is - Revenge is a dish best served cold.

"The truth will out" - Sometimes truth takes its own sweet time about willing out.

The existence of this site, and the general high quality of both posts and posters is gradually becoming known throughout the LBH community.

We must seek today, and seek tomorrow to become the place people go to when they want a balanced version of the events we most talk about. If we continue that he and his kind are doomed. The best part about that is that he knows it. He is living on borrowed time. His dreams slip slowly through his fingers with each passing day. He will be the engine of his own destruction. He will drive his own car into the brick wall of no return.

Now for Christ sake Dave leave the goddamned keys on the table where he can find them, and think of this no more. I know these things are personally painful to you. You are of such character that they cannot help but be. There can be no eye for an eye, no tooth for a tooth. Retribution is not in your portfolio. It belongs elsewhere.

There will come that day, when the house he has built upon sand comes down around his ears. He knows it is coming. There is nothing in the world he can do about it. It may be around the corner, next week, next year. Who knows, but it is coming. It is as inevitable as death itself, and there is nothing, nothing, that he can do or say, no amends he can make in this transitory world that will keep him from what he fears the most - first irrelevance, then shame. Take heart - The truth will out, and the truth will be served cold.

[yanmacca]

Mar 2, 2017 0:53:34 GMT dave said:

I have been banned from several places, one or two which served alcoholic beverages

Dave, that is a right of passage for a young man, it's a part of growing up.

[azranger]

Feb 28, 2017 19:34:20 GMT yanmacca said:

Dave, I think I covered all of those questions in an earlier posts.

Now lets look at from the perspective of the Indians, so they have 150 soldiers bottled up in the timber, reports come back saying that more were to the north and even more were coming from the south, now I would guess that the 150 in the timber would be the least of their worries as they have them cornered after chasing them off the prairie.

The problem they would face is who blocks the southern force and who goes to destroy the northern force and who wants to play guard with the bunch in timber, now there would be enough Indians to do all three, but organizing these forces would be a problem.

So it would depend on the Cheyennes to check the northern bunch and I would guess the 900 in the valley would be enough to hold the place, so at the end of the day if Reno stayed he was toast.

This is where the Custer never makes a mistake fans have to distort and use "FIX and Flank". They suggest that Reno could fix all the Indians around him and Custer could move at will. Clair tried to help by suggesting it was physiological fix but not a physical fix. That falls apart when you consider families would be in jeopardy at the north end of the village. There is nothing to keep a Cheyenne from defending his family.

Benteen maintained that defending the timber  site would not change the outcome of the battle. Since this was not the Benteen court of inquiry it was not followed up with further questions. So if Reno stays in the timber where does Benteen end up if he does not cross as he testified that he would not do without the pack train coming up?

That high ground above the timber should bother any one that is concerned about shooters such as the one at SSR. What is a great defensive position facing the floor of the valley leaves you back exposed to the bluffs. Even the bank on the east side could be used to put fire on the troopers just like the did to French's company shortly before they left the timber.

So ask Benteen how great that position is if there is a few Indian shooters above the No 1 defensive site.

[azranger]

Mar 1, 2017 20:41:31 GMT quincannon said:

The person you seek to hoist upon his own petard Dave, uses control, on that board, the way he uses control in his other activities.

Therefore it is not a matter of just changing his mind or altering an opinion or two. That cannot be done, as long as his personality remains as it is.

Personally, I would love to put him in a situation where he is humiliated to such an extent he would never show his face in public again and hide behind the spare matrass in his mommy's basement until he is called to account by a much higher authority.

That is not going to happen. Him changing is not going to happen. The only thing that will happen is that he will get up close and personal with that higher authority.

Until that day comes, it pays no dividends to give him or that board one fraction of a second of your conscience thoughts.

I think it is near impossible to do that Chuck. He does not think the way you do. He shows up at the LBHA meeting buts does not pay to attend. I heard people talking about him. He sat between Will Hutchison (a marine and former law enforcement officer) and myself and talked about his arrests. I think he stated it is up to 5 arrests. The last was possessing weapons that he used in reenacting.

Regards

Steve

[yanmacca]

Great stuff Steve.

I would guess that some of these Benteen doubters should put themselves in his shoes, if by reading the note Benteen was in some way reasonable for the train and its assets, then would he actually take them across the river and into the valley, without the valley being secured first?

Now I don’t know if Benteen could actually see the timber from any place along the river, so I would guess that he would check out just who was doing the firing before committing either his full battalion or the train on a trek across a river and down a valley.

I suppose the best everyone could hope for here is, Benteen leaving the train with a couple of his companies in a defensive position, this would be on the opposite side of the River to Reno, then send Weir and D company across (well he was impatient) to see what was going on. This would attract any Indians to him, probably Crazy Horse and his 200, which would be one hell of a surprise to a 40 man company.

Reno could use this intrusion to mount his breakout, but this too would have problems, especially if Benteen’s men and the train is around the ford A area, which would result in a longer ride for his men under fire.

The only result in all this would be that any of Reno’s men who managed to reach this position and of course any of Benteen’s men who were also in the valley, would get covering fire from the trooper packers and Benteen’s remaining companies.

They would then be just as isolated from Custer's Battalion as they would be on Reno hill, well worse in fact as they would be further away, which certainly wouldn’t help the men in C, E, F, I & L.

[dave]

QC
I agree the wheels of justice continual grind, sometimes exceedingly fine, but they do move. I admit to having some harsh thoughts about this individual. Kinda like the Ole Boy down at the Masonic Hall talking about his brother in law that killed his duck dawg when he said " I'd like to put my boot so far up his ass that you could see my bootlaces coming out his nose."
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

He will be undone Dave, and undone in the very same manner Colonel Drummond undid Mathew Harrison Brady.

Steve: All he was telling you is that he believes the rules do not apply to him. You and I both know better. Let him think that all he pleases.

[azranger]

There was a poster that I respected Jose and if I recall correctly he thinks Benteen saw the withdrawal of French's Company as they were moving to the timber. Depending on Benteen's first viewing location it could take time to get up to the Reno Hill area.

Sometimes I think we lose some valuable information. Benteen was at the separation of Reno and Custer. He followed Custer and that trail was just below Reno Hill. That should be a given and the direction from there is SSR, Cedar Coulee or Cedar Coulee to the loaf on Weir and then down that drainage.

Regards

Steve

[yanmacca]

Steve, so going by that information then, Benteen and the following MacDougal were actually on their way to meet up with Custer and not Reno?

[quincannon]

Two plus miles away, terrain restrictions, differences in elevation.

Possible maybe. Probable, not so much.

Think it more likely that he saw the mid-stage of the breakout.

Regardless, the point is still the same, Benteen would do nothing until he had fulfilled his responsibility for the pack trains.

Acting in haste in a situation so uncertain, is the one time the "Benteen" rule does not apply, Doing it deliberately, rather than doing it now, makes more sense.

[yanmacca]

Just thinking that if Reno had stayed in the timber, then Benteen would have tried his best to follow Custer's trail no matter what, but if he arrived ahead of his battalion and reached Ney-Cartwright ridge, he would be in a right pickle, as ahead of him would be a battle zone and behind him is all the packs.

[quincannon]

Conjecture.

It is true that the trail of Reno and Custer were different. That is a given. At the point where the decision had to be made by Benteen as to which trail to follow, Benteen had no earthly idea that the gunfire he must have heard in the valley, was not the place that these two trails might have come together.

My bet is that, in the absence of any more information than he had, Benteen would first make sure the pack Train was secure (not escort them mind you - but covering their march), then rode to the sound of the guns in the valley. Remember Benteen had no way of knowing what you and I know.

[yanmacca]

But reading into what Steve wrote, Benteen was unknowingly following Custer's trail (I don't think Martini give him any pointers) and that is how he came across Reno, after Reno broke out he virtually injected himself into Benteen's path and Custer's own trail.

[Beth]

Mar 2, 2017 12:56:07 GMT azranger said:

Mar 1, 2017 20:41:31 GMT quincannon said:

The person you seek to hoist upon his own petard Dave, uses control, on that board, the way he uses control in his other activities.

Therefore it is not a matter of just changing his mind or altering an opinion or two. That cannot be done, as long as his personality remains as it is.

Personally, I would love to put him in a situation where he is humiliated to such an extent he would never show his face in public again and hide behind the spare matrass in his mommy's basement until he is called to account by a much higher authority.

That is not going to happen. Him changing is not going to happen. The only thing that will happen is that he will get up close and personal with that higher authority.

Until that day comes, it pays no dividends to give him or that board one fraction of a second of your conscience thoughts.

I think it is near impossible to do that Chuck. He does not think the way you do. He shows up at the LBHA meeting buts does not pay to attend. I heard people talking about him. He sat between Will Hutchison (a marine and former law enforcement officer) and myself and talked about his arrests. I think he stated it is up to 5 arrests. The last was possessing weapons that he used in reenacting.

Regards

Steve

He probably thought the three of you were having a bonding experience.  You two as law officers and he as a criminal.  You have so much in common.