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Post by Beth on Sept 30, 2016 1:07:17 GMT
I know that Custer screwed himself by the misuse of his scouting resources. Scouts could have told him so much like the large number of horses that moved back and forth for the Battle of the Rosebud among other things. However in-particular Bloody Knife was supposed to go with Custer but went with Reno instead. I have read that Bloody Knife was one of Custer's favorite scout so if Bloody Knife was with Custer when he made the curve to head to the hills would he have said wait a minute boss you need to go to the bench-that is bad land. Could it have been a factor?
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 30, 2016 9:12:21 GMT
Don't you think that all Custer was thinking about was finding the main Indian trail (which apparently was quite distinctive because of its size) and following it until he reached his goal?
Did he actually scout for anything except this travois trail, and was the Benteen scout to the left another way of feeling to the left?
I wonder if he tried to do all what Terry asked, but in a small and insignificant way, rather like winging it but keeping his main focus on finding the village and attacking.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 30, 2016 17:20:48 GMT
If Bloody Knife was GAC's favorite scout why did he not ride with Custer? Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Sept 30, 2016 18:47:05 GMT
Each time that the subject of scouting is brought up in the 1876 context I think to myself that the guys who really knew the art form could not communicate what they knew and learned effectively, and those that could communicate did not know B from a bull's ass about the art form of reconnaissance. It was further confused by the fact that at the regimental level there was no effective means of collecting, collating, and evaluating what little useful intelligence was gleaned, with no conduit for this information to be presented to the commander for purposes of planning and decision making. A rat screw of the first water.
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Post by Beth on Sept 30, 2016 21:45:46 GMT
If Bloody Knife was GAC's favorite scout why did he not ride with Custer? Regards Dave I can't think of the source right now but I know I read that there was confusion over who was supposed to go where and Bloody Knife went with Reno when he was supposed to go with Custer. When you look at the number of guides/scouts that went with Reno it seems a bit long compared to Custer's list.
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Post by Beth on Sept 30, 2016 21:52:05 GMT
Each time that the subject of scouting is brought up in the 1876 context I think to myself that the guys who really knew the art form could not communicate what they knew and learned effectively, and those that could communicate did not know B from a bull's ass about the art form of reconnaissance. It was further confused by the fact that at the regimental level there was no effective means of collecting, collating, and evaluating what little useful intelligence was gleaned, with no conduit for this information to be presented to the commander for purposes of planning and decision making. A rat screw of the first water. But weren't others like Crook use his scouts to his advantage? What about Gibbon?
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Post by quincannon on Sept 30, 2016 22:38:03 GMT
Beth: Our good friend Steve uses and expression that goes - Adapt and Overcome.
Crook: Made a career of adapting and overcoming. In other words he used what he had to a maximum advantage of everything he had. He made bricks, not without stray, but in spite of the straw. He looked at what he did not have, then found ways to have it. we get our best impression of him in "On The Border" Look at the last chapter and see what his principle staff officer said about him. You see a picture of loyalty without the taint of being an ass kisser. Keep in mind also that Crook was at a higher level, had a staff, and he used them to coordinate the information provided by his scouts.
Custer: None of the above.
Gibbon: The only thing I know of him was the Iron Brigade and Brawner's Farm/Groveton on the first day of Second Manassas.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 30, 2016 23:56:48 GMT
One thing that can be said of Gibbon was that he was a brave man. The Iron Brigade would have run him off if he were not made of the same stern material they were. Sadly their bravery lead to their demise but they live on in glory and fame. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Oct 1, 2016 4:01:12 GMT
I am not sure what you mean by their demise Dave.
The Iron Brigade, 1st Brigade/1st Division/I Corps, was mustered out of service in 1865. They took horrendous casualties, several time, Gettysburg being the most notable, but as a brigade they survived until the end of the war.
Now a head scratcher for you. What current U S Army unit carries Iron Brigade home area symbolism? Not Iron Brigade per say, but a Civil War unit raised in the same area, whose symbolism is carried on to today.
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Post by yanmacca on Oct 1, 2016 10:01:57 GMT
Hmm...I shall hazard a guess; link
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Post by yanmacca on Oct 1, 2016 16:23:13 GMT
Am I correct?
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Post by quincannon on Oct 1, 2016 16:43:05 GMT
You are in the right stadium, but the wrong dugout. Nice try but no Cuban Cigar for you buster.
Ian has correctly identified Wisconsin as the area. The 32nd was a division raised in Wisconsin and Michigan for World War I service. The unit in question was also raised in World War I, specifically in the late summer of 1918, but did not adopt the symbolism until after the World War.
Ian, since you are so familiar with your own web site, and the information I gave is a dead giveaway for you I hope you will disqualify yourself, and sit back with me to await what Dave and or others come up with.
I will say this, that I directed the question to Dave because of his intense interest in the ACW. The symbolism was drawn from very famous incident from that war, notable to both sides.
His intense interest is noted by the fact that he consistently refers to the ACW as "The War", indicating that either he is in some Star Trek time warp, or that Mississippi somehow missed the events of 1914-18 and 1939-45. Drink a good strong julip Dave, all will be well on yon morrow.
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Post by Beth on Oct 1, 2016 17:32:41 GMT
When any conflict is fought at your doorstep, it will be 'the War' even if it happened generations earlier. Memories sometimes are too long.
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Post by quincannon on Oct 1, 2016 18:05:29 GMT
OK Beth, but if you get him off the hook he does not get a julip.
Dave it may be of interest to you to learn that the 128th Infantry (Second Wisconsin) is the only element of the ACW Iron Brigade still in existence. The Second was raised from existing companies of the Wisconsin Militia, and were reformed in Wisconsin after the muster out of Federal Service in 1865. The rest of the Wisconsin units, and as far as I know the one Indiana component of the Iron Brigade were raised as wartime only units and were not further perpetuated. With ARNG units, there must be a continuum of existence to perpetuate unit and honors.
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Post by Beth on Oct 1, 2016 18:42:51 GMT
Luckily Dave gave me a lesson in the art of making Southern Sweet Tea after his foray into the Northern lands were according the him we are clueless on tea making practices.
Personally I like my iced tea brewed by the sun and served unadulterated, stirred not shaken.
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