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Post by yanmacca on Jul 9, 2016 10:05:19 GMT
A bit off topic here, but there is talk that Capt. Weir may have saw some startling stuff on Weir point and that he took this information to the grave, because he was the first to over look the area some think that he saw things that the follow up solders missed as events change pretty rapidly, but wait a minute he had an orderly with him named Private Sanders, so surly what Weir saw Sanders did too right?
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Post by Beth on Jul 10, 2016 4:10:14 GMT
I wonder what people think are the possibilities and if they consider that 'thing' to have contributed to Weir's unfortunate end.
What would be clearly visible from Weir Point?
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Post by yanmacca on Jul 10, 2016 13:24:46 GMT
Well Beth if this painting is anything to go by, probably not much;
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2016 14:00:01 GMT
I agree not much more or even any more than you can see in the painting.
There is a road that cuts through Weir presently. I have stood in the road with a pair of Navy watch standers glasses (quite powerful)and the only thing I could see was the very top of the monument, and the west side of battle ridge. Had I been higher, at approximately the same height that Weir stood, I possibly could have seen a little more, but not enough I would venture to give me a more complete picture of what was transpiring.
By the time Weir got there the battle was most probably on the east side of battle ridge, and down in the low ground below last stand hill. Plenty of terrain features in between to mask the action. Add dust, haze, and powder smoke.
That dear ones crapola was not what he saw in the present, but rather a coupling of what he saw in the aftermath, and the two visions and emotions comingled in his mind. Sort of like running your car over a deep pot hole. You know by the noise you have hurt something down under, but it is only when you get out of the car and examine the damage to find you have destroyed tire, rim, and strut, and you car can't be driven that the guilt of your carelessness kicks in.
No I do not believe he needed any more excuses to drink himself to death. He was already a dead man walking at LBH. What happened only served to make his few remaining months more miserable.
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Post by Beth on Jul 10, 2016 15:15:40 GMT
Would he have seen the massive number of NA coming up from the valley in a number of locations?
As QC says, Weir was already well on his way to drinking himself to death before Little Bighorn. The battle just moved up the time table a bit.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 10, 2016 15:20:00 GMT
At Ford B for sure, if they were still coming across. He would have also see those on the west side of battle ridge that were at some elevation.
What he would not have seen is any activity at the upper fords C and D, not anyone down in the coulees, that were say more than half a mile from his front.
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Post by Beth on Jul 10, 2016 15:24:23 GMT
And of course if Weir could see them, they could see Weir so perhaps he realized he had just drawn more combatants towards his location.
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Post by yanmacca on Jul 10, 2016 18:29:04 GMT
I think they started waving guidons around in an attempt to get some sign, but that maybe an old wives tale cooked up by some Victorian news paper man.
I have tried to find if Sanders left some account of what he saw, because if I was a author and scholar of this battle and was knocking around this era, then I would be very interested in meeting Mr. Sanders.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 14:43:56 GMT
An LOS view using Google Earth Pro of what can be seen from the vicinity of Weir Point. the LOS extends to about 10km. Attachments:
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Post by crowsnest on Jul 7, 2021 15:51:40 GMT
The story goes by the time Weir got to that position he saw people (initially he assumed Custer, but then was corrected and realized it was Indians) moving about. Then they realized these people moving about were likely finishing off the wounded. Given the dust and smoke of the event, it's likely he was witnessing the killing of the wounded on Calhoun Hill and the vicinity just to the SW where C company had established the end of their line. And he likely could barely see that which accounts for the mentioned confusion above. The odds of him being able to actually see LSH at that moment was probably pretty low. If that's the case it's likely Custer and several men were still alive (obviously conjecture there), but probably for less than 30 minutes after that. It's quite possible if Weir ran at a full gallop with nobody impeding him, he might not have been able to get to Custer before LSH collapsed, let alone move an entire company in unison through the native force.
But to the original Question what did Weir see? Probably the cleaning up of Calhoun hill, and the start of the plunder stage of the fight there.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 7, 2021 17:42:00 GMT
Well having tried to see what I could see from the road cut which was in 1876 higher, and the approximate height of the two shoulders of that cut today, I can tell you what I could not see with a pair of very high power Navy Watch binoculars. The short answer is not much. I could see the very top of the monument. I could see Calhoun Hill and F-F Ridge, but of course anything happening on the east side of Battle Ridge was blocked by terrain.
My personal belief, just that, nothing more, is that Custer himself was finished by the time Weir got there,as was Calhoun. Any fighting then going on was in the Company I sector, behind the ridge, and maybe some still down where the bulk of Company E was on the lip between. Deep Ravine and Cemetery Ravine. Nothing whatsoever to back it up though, just a hunch about how the battle flowed.
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Post by yanmacca on Jul 7, 2021 18:31:55 GMT
Not an expert, but wouldn’t the action of shooting objects on the ground, be the Indians (men and woman) simple enjoying themselves making a mess out of the dead soldiers? The battle could have been done and dusted before Weir got to his vantage point, plus didn’t the Indians finish off dead men with their clubs and stuff, why waste ammo on someone who is nearly dead, surly they would hack them to death? Another theory is that they simply finished them off with their own weapons after they lay injured.
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Post by Elwood on Nov 29, 2022 19:41:31 GMT
Question: Since Weir disobeyed Reno and went north on his own, did Reno, or anyone else, ever push for punishment of Weir? I’ve never heard of it. Obviously, more serious events followed and there was no point in any such action but was simply wondering. Reno ever write negatively of Weir afterwards? Thanks.
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Post by quincannon on Nov 29, 2022 20:04:03 GMT
The short answer is I do not know, having like yourself never read anything about this aspect of the Reno-Weir relationship one way or the other.
What I will say though is I do not think so regarding punishment for an alleged disobedience of orders. Things happen like this on the battlefield all the time, and rarely does they actually result in disciplary measures. Did he disobey? That is subject to some conjecture. I happen to think he did, but that is my opinion. We must however put these things in perspective. You can bet your last farthing that the Army (by that I mean those above Reno) would have told Reno - Suck it up Major, this is not the time - referring to the totalality of circumstances existing in the aftermath of battle. Dirty laundry is not something the Army wishes to see hanging on the public clothes line.
As to Reno writing negatively abot Weir, I highly doubt he did, seeing that Weir did not live out 1876.
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Post by Elwood on Nov 29, 2022 23:05:40 GMT
Thank you Sir. Pretty much everything I’ve read says Weir begged and pleaded to be allowed to ride north to the sounds of gunfire. Reno denied him and he eventually left on his own. Also found it somewhat humorous that as he approached the point that now bears his name, a courier(s) from Reno caught up with him relaying orders to attempt contact with Custer. Yes sir, major, I’m on it. If anything he deserves a medal, or at least recognition, for his efforts. IMO.
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