dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jun 27, 2016 17:47:08 GMT
I had posted this comment on another board and am copying it here. Has anyone read about the discovery of the USS Herring (SS 233) by a "joint expedition of the Russian Geographical Society (RGS) and Defense Ministry?" The article was published on June 22 and I would have expected the US to have acknowledged the claim but would determine for themselves if it were indeed the Herring. As a reminder, it was the Russians who discovered the watery grave of the USS Wahoo (SS 238)---a sister sub of the Herring---in Japanese waters in 2006. If this discovery is indeed the Herring it would be the 6th* submarine lost during WW II to have be found. Five were lost in enemy action and one from a training accident. I think I have this correct but will await QC's opinion. Regards Dave * 1 submarine ran aground during the war and was destroyed atop the reef and some wreckage still remains of another submarine sunk in Cavite Navy Yard, PI www.rt.com/news/347834-us-submarine-found-wwii/
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 27, 2016 18:50:17 GMT
Dave it amazes me just how many vessels are still undiscovered, did you see the link to the Royal Navy T-class submarine HMS P 311 (the only sub of her class to be not formally named, it was planned to call her Tutankhamen, but her sinking put paid to that), she was lost in the med with all hands. Here is the list of 71 British submarines lost in combat; linkAnd to show my allegiance, to my friends in the states; link
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jun 27, 2016 18:58:44 GMT
Yan I did notice the article about the British boat but forgot to mention it with the post about the Herring. I am looking forward to QC's post as he is very familiar with the boats and their operations. Any man who had the guts to go to sea in a submarine is an amazing guy let alone those who went to war in a sub. I never served but if I did I would to be a ground pounder who did his own hole! Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Jun 27, 2016 19:16:52 GMT
The ones that immediately come to mind are Wahoo, Grunion, Darter (still where she ran aground. and of course Sealion at the old Cavite Navy Yard, sunk at her pier. Seawolf has also been found, That makes five off the top of my head, but I think there are far more than six, may be as many as ten, or a few more.
We lost 52 boats in WWII, and I believe most of them in water so deep that the probability of many more being discovered in minimal. Best place to look is in the relatively shallow. waters of the Japanese Islands and in the Yellow Sea.
Side scan sonar is what is being employed to find these boats, and that technology, used for that purpose is relatively new.
My personal preference is for the dead to bury the dead. Leave them alone say I. They are memorialized at Pearl, and all on Eternal Patrol. Somehow to me finding them takes away some of the mystery, that I am not sure needs to be taken away, and personally I do not want.
I am a big fan of Fort Lincoln mirages, Company E riding to destiny, and the men of Sandringham going into the fog never to return. Lost subs I think fall into the same category. Legends are required for the betterment of all of us, Our emotions become bankrupt without them.
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Without looking, and I will trust you not to, who said "Take Her Down" and under what circumstances?
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Jun 27, 2016 19:37:39 GMT
The ones that immediately come to mind are Wahoo, Grunion, Darter (still where she ran aground. and of course Sealion at the old Cavite Navy Yard, sunk at her pier. Seawolf has also been found, That makes five off the top of my head, but I think there are far more than six, may be as many as ten, or a few more.
We lost 52 boats in WWII, and I believe most of them in water so deep that the probability of many more being discovered in minimal. Best place to look is in the relatively shallow. waters of the Japanese Islands and in the Yellow Sea.
Side scan sonar is what is being employed to find these boats, and that technology, used for that purpose is relatively new.
My personal preference is for the dead to bury the dead. Leave them alone say I. They are memorialized at Pearl, and all on Eternal Patrol. Somehow to me finding them takes away some of the mystery, that I am not sure needs to be taken away, and personally I do not want.
I am a big fan of Fort Lincoln mirages, Company E riding to destiny, and the men of Sandringham going into the fog never to return. Lost subs I think fall into the same category. Legends are required for the betterment of all of us, Our emotions become bankrupt without them.
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Without looking, and I will trust you not to, who said "Take Her Down" and under what circumstances? Mush Morton while injured and surrounded by Japanese warships. Him or Red Ramage.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Jun 27, 2016 20:04:59 GMT
Had to look it up after posting guess. Right idea wrong skipper.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jun 27, 2016 20:51:57 GMT
QC I was taken by the discovery since we all love to know where the lost sub is especially if you are interested in the boats and the men who crewed them. Would only want to see the outside to discovery what might have caused their demise.
Brother Dave I thought Howard Gilmore on the USS Growler said the immortal words "Take her down! but I could be wrong. So many of the US Sub skippers were great leaders and characters in their own right with Morton, O'Kane, Cutter, Beach, Ramage and Lew Parks to mention a few. Regards Dave
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Jun 27, 2016 20:58:11 GMT
Had to look it up after posting guess. Right idea wrong skipper.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Jun 27, 2016 21:51:04 GMT
Dave it is you who are 100% correct. Howard Gilmore is the correct answer and courageous officer who gave the command that ensured his loss while saving his command.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 27, 2016 21:53:24 GMT
Gilmore - "Clear the Bridge ******* Take Her Down"
Grower collided with and IJN destroyer during a night time attack. Small caliber gun fire from the can, killed or wounded several on the bridge, including Gilmore. Once the bridge was clear. Gilmore ordered the boat to dive, knowing that if they tried to save him the IJN destroyer would have recovered in time to sink Growler. Gilmore was never seen again.
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OK who was the squadron commodore who refused to leave a sinking boat, knowing he would be captured, and he having knowledge of USN codebreaking refused to be rescued? What boat?
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jun 27, 2016 22:32:48 GMT
Cromwell? Crumnel? Regards Dave
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Jun 27, 2016 23:34:49 GMT
Cromwell? Crumnel? Regards Dave John Philip Cromwell but I cheated.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 28, 2016 0:35:56 GMT
Cromwell is correct. What I never understood though and Cromwell falls into this category, is why some of the late Sumners or Gearings do not carry the names Dealey, Cromwell, Morton, and a few other ace boat skippers that were lost in 43 and 44. Would not expect any killed in 45 to have DD's or DE's named for them. All those mentioned were so honored in the 1950's, and some even later, but the only submariners I can recall being honored in wartime were Abele with a DD, and Gilmore with an AS.
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OK: What president and what submarine ace skipper (not Beach) have a connection, and what is it.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 28, 2016 3:14:19 GMT
Gosh I thought this last one would be a piece of cake for you fellows. While you still may be scratching your heads, here is one I don't think anyone will get, without a deep dive (pun intended) into submarine lore.
USS Trigger had several commanders during WWII. Two of them had something in common other than USNA, the fact they were both submariners, and the fact they both commanded the same boat. What was it? How did it come about? What was the end result?
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Jun 28, 2016 3:35:10 GMT
QC All I can remember who commanded the Trigger was Dusty Benson since he was mentioned by Ned Beach. Have no idea about the other questions.
As to the naming of the vessels after the skippers would it have been there were so many others who had not received a lot of fame after their deaths? Regards Dave
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