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Post by rollingthunder on Dec 26, 2022 19:34:12 GMT
I have been flicking through Gordon Harpers book today, I find boxing day a very slow and relaxing day until the evening, as we always get invited to a house party
Harper says that C Company came down from battle ridge with revolvers blazing, which forced the Indians back, but many more lay in wait out of sight on both of his flanks. He then states that once the revolvers were empty Harrington ordered a skirmish line and that this line was formed just southwest of FFR, the skirmish line traded shots with Indians on greasy grass ridge, it was then that a rush was made by the Indians with hand held weapons, the soldiers only managed to fire a few carbine rounds before they lost their horses (it was here that Harper says the women scared the horses by waving blankets), Harringtons men (C Company had a large proportion of raw recruits then any other company) then got engaged in hand to hand fighting which caused them to panic and flee, Sgts Bobo, Finkle and Finley still had their horses and took off, Bobo went straight to Keogh and the other two went to FFR in a vain attempt to rally the men, both got killed yards from each other. Harrington who also had his horse, charged the oncoming Indians and was engulfed by them.
Harper does provide sources to his story, but not on every event, unless I have missed them, so I wonder if he has embelished these accounts with some of his own thoughts. It is still a good book mind, and it is worth a read.
Ian
The phrase: "C Company came down from battle ridge with blazing revolvers" sounds like a dime novel. But I'm sure Harper would have good reason for writing it.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Dec 27, 2022 4:12:33 GMT
“After the long time of the slow fighting, about forty of the soldiers came galloping from the east part of the ridge down toward the river, toward where most of the Cheyennes and many Ogallalas were hidden. The Indians ran back to a deep gulch. The soldiers stopped and got off their horses when they arrived at a low ridge where the Indians had been. Lame White Man, the Southern Cheyenne chief, came on his horse and called us to come back and fight. In a few minutes the warriors were all around these soldiers. Then Lame White Man called out:
"Come. We can kill all of them." This is what Wooden Leg says happened.
"Harper says that C Company came down from battle ridge with revolvers blazing, which forced the Indians back, but many more lay in wait out of sight on both of his flanks. He then states that once the revolvers were empty Harrington ordered a skirmish line and that this line was formed just southwest of FFR, the skirmish line traded shots with Indians on greasy grass ridge, it was then that a rush was made by the Indians with hand held weapons, the soldiers only managed to fire a few carbine rounds before they lost their horses (it was here that Harper says the women scared the horses by waving blankets), Harringtons men (C Company had a large proportion of raw recruits then any other company) then got engaged in hand to hand fighting which caused them to panic and flee, Sgts Bobo, Finkle and Finley still had their horses and took off, Bobo went straight to Keogh and the other two went to FFR in a vain attempt to rally the men, both got killed yards from each other. Harrington who also had his horse, charged the oncoming Indians and was engulfed by them."
My interpretation of the event is that Harrington arrived at Calhoun Hill and saw Indians infiltrating up Finley Finkle Ridge to threaten Calhoun's Right flank. He reacted by deploying his men to Finley Finkle Ridge to clear the ridge and counter this threat.
The above accounts agree with this general deployment. The Indians dropped off the ridge back into Deep Coulee (The Indians ran back to a deep gulch.). Certainly equivalent to say that more lay in wait out of sight on both of his flanks.
The blazing revolvers well may be true.
"The soldiers stopped and got off their horses when they arrived at a low ridge where the Indians had been." Occupying the ridge is more likely to me than a skirmish line to the South West since clearing the ridge is the first objective.
I think the fire from Greasy Grass was a shock for Harrington. He was a fairly new officer under great pressure, on a piece of terrain he had little knowledge of; clearing the flank was a sound idea but perhaps carried out too aggressively.
hand to hand fighting which caused them to panic and flee The troopers of Company C had no weapons for hand to hand! Who would not flee? Panic or not. So let's give them a break.
The markers and terrain make it apparent that Finley and Finkle tried to rally and stop the Indian attack.
I think it far more likely that Harrington sent Bobo to Keogh to advise him of the events ahead at Cahoun Hill prior to moving to the ridge. I think that is what a competent officer would do in the situation.
Actually I am of the opinion that the officers and men of Custer's command conducted themselves very well that day. Sometimes your best is just not enough.
If this is from the last chapter then Harper did not write it. Which Chapter is it Ian?
Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 27, 2022 14:17:24 GMT
Hi Mac, its on the pages 189-190, but what you see in my post is a selection of what Harper wrote, If I tried to write the full page and a half it would have taken me ages and since it was boxing day and the "sea wolves" were on TV, plus we had to get ready for a house party, I had to squeeze what I could in what limited time I had.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Dec 27, 2022 23:54:10 GMT
It saddens me to report to you that my wife Joan passed away after a two month long struggle with Pulmonary Fibrosis. The end was peaceful. and she had received the spiritual comfort of her Christian Faith.
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 28, 2022 10:14:16 GMT
We are really sorry Chuck. I realise that no words can comfort your loss. You are in our thoughts and the rest of the board too.
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Post by rollingthunder on Dec 28, 2022 14:01:02 GMT
It saddens me to report to you that my wife Joan passed away after a two month long struggle with Pulmonary Fibrosis. The end was peaceful. and she had received the spiritual comfort of her Christian Faith. My deepest condolences and a big hug from Spain dear friend
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Post by Elwood on Dec 28, 2022 14:59:09 GMT
My deepest sympathies to you and your family Sir.
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tja
Civilian
Posts: 13
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Post by tja on Dec 29, 2022 0:35:19 GMT
My condolences to you and your family.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Dec 29, 2022 1:42:12 GMT
So sorry to hear the news Chuck. Thoughts are with you and the family. As an old friend of mine used to say "There will be hi jinks in Heaven tonight". A beautiful and much loved lady.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 29, 2022 17:05:06 GMT
My thanks and appreciation goes out to all of you. Been a rough couple of days, but they will end, and the love and happiness of having her still with me, although in a different form, will return and continue.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 30, 2022 13:36:53 GMT
I have been flicking through Gordon Harpers book today, I find boxing day a very slow and relaxing day until the evening, as we always get invited to a house party
Harper says that C Company came down from battle ridge with revolvers blazing, which forced the Indians back, but many more lay in wait out of sight on both of his flanks. He then states that once the revolvers were empty Harrington ordered a skirmish line and that this line was formed just southwest of FFR, the skirmish line traded shots with Indians on greasy grass ridge, it was then that a rush was made by the Indians with hand held weapons, the soldiers only managed to fire a few carbine rounds before they lost their horses (it was here that Harper says the women scared the horses by waving blankets), Harringtons men (C Company had a large proportion of raw recruits then any other company) then got engaged in hand to hand fighting which caused them to panic and flee, Sgts Bobo, Finkle and Finley still had their horses and took off, Bobo went straight to Keogh and the other two went to FFR in a vain attempt to rally the men, both got killed yards from each other. Harrington who also had his horse, charged the oncoming Indians and was engulfed by them.
Harper does provide sources to his story, but not on every event, unless I have missed them, so I wonder if he has embelished these accounts with some of his own thoughts. It is still a good book mind, and it is worth a read.
Ian
Ian The publisher would not allow all of Gordie's resources because the book would be too large. That is why there is a the electronic second book. The great thing is the electronic resources is searchable. I have some of Gordie's hand written original chapters. I also have a CD that he was working on. It's to bad we weren't solicited for PMs and conversations. Gordon Richard didn't want anyone else involved and told Tori not to solicit information. The chapter written by Gordon Richard does not match Gordies thoughts. In the end I am glad she got it published. Regards Steve
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Post by rollingthunder on Dec 30, 2022 13:46:33 GMT
I have been flicking through Gordon Harpers book today, I find boxing day a very slow and relaxing day until the evening, as we always get invited to a house party
Harper says that C Company came down from battle ridge with revolvers blazing, which forced the Indians back, but many more lay in wait out of sight on both of his flanks. He then states that once the revolvers were empty Harrington ordered a skirmish line and that this line was formed just southwest of FFR, the skirmish line traded shots with Indians on greasy grass ridge, it was then that a rush was made by the Indians with hand held weapons, the soldiers only managed to fire a few carbine rounds before they lost their horses (it was here that Harper says the women scared the horses by waving blankets), Harringtons men (C Company had a large proportion of raw recruits then any other company) then got engaged in hand to hand fighting which caused them to panic and flee, Sgts Bobo, Finkle and Finley still had their horses and took off, Bobo went straight to Keogh and the other two went to FFR in a vain attempt to rally the men, both got killed yards from each other. Harrington who also had his horse, charged the oncoming Indians and was engulfed by them.
Harper does provide sources to his story, but not on every event, unless I have missed them, so I wonder if he has embelished these accounts with some of his own thoughts. It is still a good book mind, and it is worth a read.
Ian
Ian The publisher would not allow all of Gordie's resources because the book would be too large. That is why there is a the electronic second book. The great thing is the electronic resources is searchable. I have some of Gordie's hand written original chapters. I also have a CD that he was working on. It's to bad we weren't solicited for PMs and conversations. Gordon Richard didn't want anyone else involved and told Tori not to solicit information. The chapter written by Gordon Richard does not match Gordies thoughts. In the end I am glad she got it published. Regards Steve The chapter written by Gordon Richard is the last one? Chapter 10 - Death of the valiant
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Post by quincannon on Dec 30, 2022 15:52:04 GMT
What Gordon Richard did to Harper's work should be considered literary malpractice in my view. It is OK not to agree with someone's views on just about anything, but, reengineering a person's theory to match your own views, regardless of circumstances, should be completely out of bounds. Richard might has well have said Custer was overrun by the 21st Panzer Division with Rommel in the lead, for all the sense it made in relation to Harper's work.
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 30, 2022 20:54:53 GMT
I do get what you all say about Hunkpapa and his extra addition at the end, but the segment I am referring to was written by Harper and not Hunk.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Dec 30, 2022 23:16:45 GMT
Yes, I know.
It would have been better though had the book not been written, in my estimation, than to have a man's life work distorted by the malfeasance of another. There are things in life one does not do, and that is one of them.
I often disagreed with Fred Wagner, but if I took his book as being black, and wrote an addendum to it that said it was really white, I would be doing his life's work, and memory a disservice. That, to me, is completely out of bounds.
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