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Post by yanmacca on Nov 11, 2015 18:54:12 GMT
Well the last ever episode of Lewis is being shown this week so we will be a program down on our watch together list, but we got a new TiVo box a couple of days ago which allows us to watch youtube on our TV, not that we will be watching Custer Apollo together but there is some great stuff on there and we will explore it together.
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Post by Beth on Nov 11, 2015 19:04:50 GMT
That's said news about Lewis, it's a family favorite.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679 
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Post by dave on Nov 11, 2015 19:15:16 GMT
Beth
Speaking of Andre Llyod Weber please go to youtube and watch Sissell sing "Don't cry for me Argentina." What a beautiful voice and she has many videos posted.
Regards
Dave
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Post by Beth on Nov 11, 2015 19:32:01 GMT
I will! Thanks!
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,800
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Post by mac on Nov 11, 2015 21:14:17 GMT
Beth I got some great maps of Chris via Wild and they form the basis for a lot of my analysis (well some of the rubbish I come up with anyway). Just want to share with you a snippet from our friend Custer Apollo (I wish we could get him to join this board but he is like the Lone Ranger) and if you watch the first couple of minutes you will have a great idea of the terrain over which C company operated, most of the main features like greasy grass hill and Calhoun coulee are nothing more but a slight rise and a shallow depression. linkYan. Correct Ian but more than enough to make visibility a nightmare. |
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Post by dgfred on Feb 15, 2017 21:44:45 GMT
If Keogh's wing is further north or easterly (or in better position) does the entire command survive?
If there is a north-south battle flow would that then make it 'Keogh's Last Stand'?
I understand the men forming around their wounded commander... but they were like fish in a barrel at that position. I can't understand if they were hit by a tidal wave of warriors from every direction/ were they trying to get north to LSH/ were they trying to cover the 'middle'/ were they overwhelmed around/from Calhoun Hill.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Feb 16, 2017 0:28:44 GMT
In this scenario he was hit broadside attempting to move south, from the west, mostly, and pushed into the swale, probably by CH. Nobody had time to huddle!
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 16, 2017 10:40:28 GMT
Look at the Keogh sector markers Greg, you will notice that they are some distance from the spine of battle ridge and are virtually in a hollow, now no commander would choose to fight there so it shows that these men were corralled in this area, for all we know I Company may have excepted survivors from C and L before the door was finally closed, much in the way how a few may have made it to LSH, as you can see on old maps (like the one Beth posted), that some of Keogh's men either tried to reach LSH or were short running to Keogh, the choice is yours, but I would guess that the men saw Custer battle flag and made for it. Look at the markers near the monument and how it looks like a few tried to break free, now I don't know if these markers were originally in one of those gaps that were filled in to make the new road and were moved here, but they do seem closer to LSH then their friends below;  |
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Post by dgfred on Feb 16, 2017 15:30:08 GMT
Yes. I have been thinking over whether a hill/ridge position is all that desirable with arrows raining down on you from warriors you can't see too well. Then you have rifles shooting at you from other ridges/hills too.
I am thinking over whether Keogh's group was forced away from Calhoun's area or off of the ridge. Or maybe they were sort of in formation heading one way or another in the hollow and were overwhelmed from multiple directions from way more warriors than they had seen or were expecting.
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Post by rebcav on Feb 16, 2017 20:02:42 GMT
There is perhaps an element of that Beth but there business is battle and they should have been able to judge reasonably well what kind of resistance was building, especially after L were forced up Calhoun Hill by the firing from Henryville. Cheers It is a battle, but Custer's men are exhausted, little food and water, and in 100 degree weather. All of those things are going to have a factor on their ability to function. Often times when we are talking about LBH I think people forget to factor in what the possibilities of the physical condition of those men were. Not to mention the physical condition of their horses. Respectfully Submitted, Duane |
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 16, 2017 22:08:58 GMT
Look at the Keogh sector markers Greg, you will notice that they are some distance from the spine of battle ridge and are virtually in a hollow, now no commander would choose to fight there so it shows that these men were corralled in this area, for all we know I Company may have excepted survivors from C and L before the door was finally closed, much in the way how a few may have made it to LSH, as you can see on old maps (like the one Beth posted), that some of Keogh's men either tried to reach LSH or were short running to Keogh, the choice is yours, but I would guess that the men saw Custer battle flag and made for it. Look at the markers near the monument and how it looks like a few tried to break free, now I don't know if these markers were originally in one of those gaps that were filled in to make the new road and were moved here, but they do seem closer to LSH then their friends below; Yan this photo reminds of Benteen's statement to the effect of a handful of corn being strewed across the field.
Regards
Dave |
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 17, 2017 12:31:04 GMT
Dave those little white markers always remind me of sheep on a hill side getting rounded up by sheep dogs, with a few breaking free and running off towards high ground, one of the sheep dogs would have caught them though and it looks like the Indians caught the men whose markers lye to the north.
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Post by dgfred on Feb 17, 2017 16:13:13 GMT
Absolute terror... so far from their homes.
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Elwood
Second Lieutenant
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Post by Elwood on Dec 22, 2022 19:25:44 GMT
Look at the Keogh sector markers Greg, you will notice that they are some distance from the spine of battle ridge and are virtually in a hollow, now no commander would choose to fight there so it shows that these men were corralled in this area, for all we know I Company may have excepted survivors from C and L before the door was finally closed When I visited the Battlefield in September, as we were leaving, my girlfriend asked me if anything we saw surprised me or if I learned anything new. I simply did not realize that Keogh's entire outfit was caught in that depression/hollow/coulee, whatever you call it. I had assumed they were more up and around battle ridge. I guess things always look different when you see them in person. I know most authors say Co. I had been placed in reserve. They simply got caught there? If all 5 companies including I went on the Ford D excursion then returned south afterwards, things had to be heating up by then in regards to Indian activity up towards and around battle ridge. Why was Keogh in reserve, was the ridge still calm enough and things relatively under control? I realize the top of the ridge offered no cover but at least it was high ground. |
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 22, 2022 20:17:32 GMT
Thats the point Elwood, how did an experienced company comander like Keogh lose control of the situation, because I dont think he was in reserve, I think he either rode into a maelstrom or was forced there from BRE.
He may have deployed his company to cover the eastern approaches but was hit from two sides.
The bottom line is that Keogh was wounded and died with most of his NCOs.
Ian
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