Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 16:48:57 GMT
From the other board, there was a discussion of who won what battle and the other results. This motivated me to look up the various definition modern US Army doctrine on effects on the enemy and wrote this short evaluation. I thought some might found it useful.
Regarding the actions at the Rosebud and LBH
Surprise and defeat occur largely in the commander's mind and a result of lack of proper security and reconnaissance.
Crook was surprised at the Rosebud. Only the Scout's being deployed forever mitigated the surprise.
The Indians were surprised at the LBH.
Crook of course claimed that he held the field so he won the victory - A traditional measure of success. Strictly speaking this is true as the Indians withdrew from the fight.
Crook was defeated, as I said, in his mind. The current Army definition of "defeat" is (From FM 3-90.1 Tactics) "Defeat is a tactical mission task that occurs when an enemy force has temporarily or permanently lost the physical means or the will to fight. The defeated force’s commander is unwilling or unable to pursue that individual’s adopted course of action, thereby yielding to the friendly commander’s will and can no longer interfere to a significant degree with the actions of friendly forces. Defeat can result from the use of force or the threat of its use."
Destroy is similar, but involves significant loss to the enemy force: "Destroy is a tactical mission task that occurs when an enemy force has temporarily or permanently lost the physical means or the will to fight. The defeated force's commander is unwilling or unable to pursue that individual's adopted course of action, thereby yielding to the friendly commander's will and can no longer interfere to a significant degree with the actions of friendly forces. Defeat* can result from the use of force or the threat of its use. The amount of damage needed to render a unit combat-ineffective depends on the unit’s type, discipline, and morale. Destroying armored or dug-in targets with area fire weapons requires considerable ammunition and time, so forces do not normally attempt it unless they have terminally guided munitions."
*Including the Defeat statement in the Destroy definition is confusing. Destroy requires the use of force whereas Defeat can occur from the threat of force.
Lesser effects include Neutralization and Suppress. These are temporary conditions. Neutralization is generally thought to occur when the attacked force suffers 30-40% casualties and Suppression at 10%.
"Neutralize is a tactical mission task that results in rendering enemy personnel or materiel incapable of interfering with a particular operation. (Figure B-25 shows the neutralize tactical mission graphic.) The two lines cross over the symbol of the unit or facility targeted for neutralization. When assigning a task to neutralize, the commander specifies the enemy force or materiel to neutralize and the duration, which is time- or event-driven. The neutralized target may become effective again when casualties are replaced, damage is repaired, or effort resulting in the neutralization is lifted. The commander normally uses a combination of lethal and nonlethal effects to neutralize enemy personnel or materiel. The assets required to neutralize a target vary accordingly."
"Suppress is a tactical mission task that results in the temporary degradation of the performance of a force or weapon system below the level needed to accomplish its mission. It occurs when a commander employs direct or indirect lethal and nonlethal effects, such as artillery, electronic warfare, or smoke on enemy personnel, weapons, and equipment to prevent or degrade enemy fires, sensors, and visual observation of friendly forces. Unlike the neutralization task, the original target regains its effectiveness without needing to reconstitute, once the effects of the systems involved in the suppression effort lift or shift to another target."
Lots of people like to use the terms "decimate" or "decimated" to describe severe casualties on a unit, but the term really means 1 out of 10. Thus, it is more like Suppression than Destroyed.
Custer's Battalion was Destroyed. The 7th Cavalry as a whole suffered about 268 killed and 55 wounded for a total of 323 casualties out of a strength of about 700. This reflects a 46% loss which result in them being Neutralized until they had a chance to rest, eat, rearm, and consolidate.
Reno/Benteen had a strength of about 355 and suffered about 50 KIA and 55 WIA for 105/355 for about a 29% loss, so they are close to be Neutralized, but they were certainly Suppressed and Fixed/Contained.
Fix is a tactical mission task where a commander prevents the enemy force from moving any part of that force from a specific location for a specific period. This may occur by engaging the enemy force to prevent its withdrawal for use elsewhere, or by using military deception, such as transmitting false orders. The commander uses fix in offensive and defensive actions; it is always a shaping operation. (Figure B-21 shows the tactical mission graphic for fix.) The commander points the arrow toward the desired enemy unit to fix. The broken part of the arrow indicates the desired location for that event to occur. B-57. Fixing an enemy force does not mean destroying it. The friendly force has to prevent the enemy from moving in any direction. This task usually has a time constraint, such as “fix the enemy reserve force until OBJECTIVE FALON, the decisive operation, is secured.” The tactical mission task of fix differs from that of block in that a fixed enemy force cannot move from a given location, but a blocked enemy force can move in any direction other than the one obstructed.
Contain is a tactical mission task that requires the commander to stop, hold, or surround enemy forces or to cause them to center their activity on a given front and prevent them from withdrawing any part of their forces for use elsewhere. Containment allows an enemy force to reposition itself within the designated geographical area, while fixing an enemy does not. Geographic terms or time may express the limits of the containment. The contain graphic encompasses the entire area in which the commander desires to contain the enemy during the development of alternative courses of action.
The Terry Column as a whole was defeated. One could argue the Reno/Benteen battalion conducted a successful defense but this conclusion should be tempered by the Indians withdrew as the Gibbon Column came closer.
One could also argue, since the 7th held the field at the end, they won the battle.
Hopefully, this doctrinal destruction can provide some clarity in the way we examine and evaluate the battle.
Regarding the actions at the Rosebud and LBH
Surprise and defeat occur largely in the commander's mind and a result of lack of proper security and reconnaissance.
Crook was surprised at the Rosebud. Only the Scout's being deployed forever mitigated the surprise.
The Indians were surprised at the LBH.
Crook of course claimed that he held the field so he won the victory - A traditional measure of success. Strictly speaking this is true as the Indians withdrew from the fight.
Crook was defeated, as I said, in his mind. The current Army definition of "defeat" is (From FM 3-90.1 Tactics) "Defeat is a tactical mission task that occurs when an enemy force has temporarily or permanently lost the physical means or the will to fight. The defeated force’s commander is unwilling or unable to pursue that individual’s adopted course of action, thereby yielding to the friendly commander’s will and can no longer interfere to a significant degree with the actions of friendly forces. Defeat can result from the use of force or the threat of its use."
Destroy is similar, but involves significant loss to the enemy force: "Destroy is a tactical mission task that occurs when an enemy force has temporarily or permanently lost the physical means or the will to fight. The defeated force's commander is unwilling or unable to pursue that individual's adopted course of action, thereby yielding to the friendly commander's will and can no longer interfere to a significant degree with the actions of friendly forces. Defeat* can result from the use of force or the threat of its use. The amount of damage needed to render a unit combat-ineffective depends on the unit’s type, discipline, and morale. Destroying armored or dug-in targets with area fire weapons requires considerable ammunition and time, so forces do not normally attempt it unless they have terminally guided munitions."
*Including the Defeat statement in the Destroy definition is confusing. Destroy requires the use of force whereas Defeat can occur from the threat of force.
Lesser effects include Neutralization and Suppress. These are temporary conditions. Neutralization is generally thought to occur when the attacked force suffers 30-40% casualties and Suppression at 10%.
"Neutralize is a tactical mission task that results in rendering enemy personnel or materiel incapable of interfering with a particular operation. (Figure B-25 shows the neutralize tactical mission graphic.) The two lines cross over the symbol of the unit or facility targeted for neutralization. When assigning a task to neutralize, the commander specifies the enemy force or materiel to neutralize and the duration, which is time- or event-driven. The neutralized target may become effective again when casualties are replaced, damage is repaired, or effort resulting in the neutralization is lifted. The commander normally uses a combination of lethal and nonlethal effects to neutralize enemy personnel or materiel. The assets required to neutralize a target vary accordingly."
"Suppress is a tactical mission task that results in the temporary degradation of the performance of a force or weapon system below the level needed to accomplish its mission. It occurs when a commander employs direct or indirect lethal and nonlethal effects, such as artillery, electronic warfare, or smoke on enemy personnel, weapons, and equipment to prevent or degrade enemy fires, sensors, and visual observation of friendly forces. Unlike the neutralization task, the original target regains its effectiveness without needing to reconstitute, once the effects of the systems involved in the suppression effort lift or shift to another target."
Lots of people like to use the terms "decimate" or "decimated" to describe severe casualties on a unit, but the term really means 1 out of 10. Thus, it is more like Suppression than Destroyed.
Custer's Battalion was Destroyed. The 7th Cavalry as a whole suffered about 268 killed and 55 wounded for a total of 323 casualties out of a strength of about 700. This reflects a 46% loss which result in them being Neutralized until they had a chance to rest, eat, rearm, and consolidate.
Reno/Benteen had a strength of about 355 and suffered about 50 KIA and 55 WIA for 105/355 for about a 29% loss, so they are close to be Neutralized, but they were certainly Suppressed and Fixed/Contained.
Fix is a tactical mission task where a commander prevents the enemy force from moving any part of that force from a specific location for a specific period. This may occur by engaging the enemy force to prevent its withdrawal for use elsewhere, or by using military deception, such as transmitting false orders. The commander uses fix in offensive and defensive actions; it is always a shaping operation. (Figure B-21 shows the tactical mission graphic for fix.) The commander points the arrow toward the desired enemy unit to fix. The broken part of the arrow indicates the desired location for that event to occur. B-57. Fixing an enemy force does not mean destroying it. The friendly force has to prevent the enemy from moving in any direction. This task usually has a time constraint, such as “fix the enemy reserve force until OBJECTIVE FALON, the decisive operation, is secured.” The tactical mission task of fix differs from that of block in that a fixed enemy force cannot move from a given location, but a blocked enemy force can move in any direction other than the one obstructed.
Contain is a tactical mission task that requires the commander to stop, hold, or surround enemy forces or to cause them to center their activity on a given front and prevent them from withdrawing any part of their forces for use elsewhere. Containment allows an enemy force to reposition itself within the designated geographical area, while fixing an enemy does not. Geographic terms or time may express the limits of the containment. The contain graphic encompasses the entire area in which the commander desires to contain the enemy during the development of alternative courses of action.
The Terry Column as a whole was defeated. One could argue the Reno/Benteen battalion conducted a successful defense but this conclusion should be tempered by the Indians withdrew as the Gibbon Column came closer.
One could also argue, since the 7th held the field at the end, they won the battle.
Hopefully, this doctrinal destruction can provide some clarity in the way we examine and evaluate the battle.
