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Post by yanmacca on Jan 18, 2020 14:58:58 GMT
Fine post Colt, I have some data on this conversion of models, The M60A2 main battle tanks were withdrawn from active service, but were still operated by reserve units for some time. Later most of them were rebuilt to an M60A3 standard. Some hulls were converted to M60 AVLB bridgelayers and M728 CEV armored engineer vehicles.
I must say that the people who build these dude tanks, should pay compensation to the military and if any tankers were killed in training by incompetent systems of these vehicles, then they should be taken to court. The British had their fair share of dude tanks, mainly in early WW2 and one old tanker said that the designers of the tanks should be taken outside and shot for costing these crew men their lives.
Chuck, I agree that you can incorporate different tanks together in the battalion, as you said the Germans did that from 1940 to 1942, with each tanks battalion having two light companies and one medium company [Pz Mk IVs with 75mmL/24], which sounds good on paper, but because the Germans had plenty of Pz Mk IIs, they thickened these companies out with platoons of these light tanks, which by 1941 had no place as a battle tank. Each light and medium tank company had 17 battle tanks and 5 Pz IIs, which was just a waste of petrol to me. Imagine Rommel having to find petrol for the 50 Pz IIs in each of his panzer regiments. That could be up to 100 of these pop gun armed tanks.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Jan 18, 2020 18:48:42 GMT
Well Ian, I generally agree with your comments about anything that is brought into service without a prolonged period of testing and evaluation of the product. The M16 for instance was a disaster when first introduced, but after much thought and subsequent modification it turned out to be a very good weapon. Before judgement though it is best to examine the context in which these things occurred. When the A2 was fielded we were quite sure the Russian were at the doorstep with thousands of tanks waiting to roar across Europe. That, and the promise of new technology on how to stop them was foremost in everyone's minds. It was a time of threat based technological panic.
You could say about the M3 and M5 the same thing you said about the Mark I and Mark II panzers. Probably the M24 as well, but again you have to put it in context. These very light tanks had great value in scouting. The Company D in our tank battalions were in reality one big scout platoon of Nosey Parkers. They were to scout out where the other guys were and then turn them over to the big fellows. Unfortunately their reputation was marred by their use as main battle tanks. The same could be said of your Crusaders and other "cruisers" They were not bad tanks, they were just used by the wrong people. Had the Crusaders and Honey's been used by your recon guys they would probably have been revered today. They were not of course. Seems to me a Honey or Crusader would be far better than an armored car, in terms of both gun power and cross country mobility.
I think the Germans felt the same way, any tank is better than no tank. It was only relatively late in the war that all sides realized that the main battle tank was the answer, and that light, medium, and heavy tanks were a waste of resources. It took some time for us here in the States to learn that lesson, for we went on to develop post war the (M41) light, and the M103 (heavy), along with the Patton series (M46-M47-M48-M60) mediums.
When a Panzer II is coming at you with a 20mm and a machine gun, and your only armor is a field jacket, pop gun is not the first thing that comes to mind. Popgun is all about your perspective.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 18, 2020 19:55:49 GMT
You are right about the Pz II being used as a scout vehicle as every battalion staff company was suppose to have five Pz IIs in a scout platoon, plus three in the HQ too. Here is how they shaped up at company level in early and late 1941 link link
Here is a breakdown of the number of tanks which were available to Rommel in both of his panzer divisions from March 1941 to October 1942;
15th PANZER
March 1941 Pz II - 45 Pz III - 71 Pz IV - 20 Pz.Bef.Wg - 10 May 1942 Pz II - 29 Pz III - 31 Pz III Special - 3 Pz IV - 22 Pz.Bef.Wg - 4 October 1942 Pz II - 14 Pz III - 43 Pz III Special - 44 Pz IV - 3 Pz IV Special - 15 Pz.Bef.Wg - 2 21st PANZER November 1941 Pz II - 35 Pz III - 58 Pz IV - 17 May 1942 Pz II - 29 Pz III - 107 Pz III Special - 15 Pz IV - 19 Pz.Bef.Wg - 4 October 1942 Pz II - 19 Pz III - 53 Pz III Special - 43 Pz IV - 7 Pz IV Special - 15 Pz.Bef.Wg - 6
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 19, 2020 20:17:01 GMT
I am going to checkout PSC to see if they do the early model of the StuG III ausf A to E [with the short 75mm]. I have never made this variant of the StuG, only the ausf G version. I am sure PSC do a version of the ausf G and if I am right then the kit must include the StuH 42 [105mm support version]. StuG Gs usually operated in threes but can have a StuH 42 attached.
Small numbers of the early version of the StuG III [ausf D], also made it to Africa, three in total and fought with Sonderverband 288. They took part in the Gazala battle and the taking of Tobruk, with one being lost and the other two being captured at El Alamein.
Rommel requested more for infantry support and six StuG III ausf F/8s [long 75mm]where sent in late 1942. Two of these where lost in the journey from Sicily to Tunisia and the remaining four where grouped into StuG Battery 90 and went into action in April 1943. This battery may have been under the command of the 10. Pz Div, but saw action supporting Fallschirm-Brigade Ramcke and then Fallschirm-Regiment Barenthin.
So, all in all the StuG was a rare beast in Africa with only seven ever reaching DAK. So, I don’t know whether or not to paint mine grey and display them as early war, 1940 to 1942.
Ian
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Post by quincannon on Jan 20, 2020 0:51:16 GMT
Looks like they only produce a Stug IIIG Ian. On many of the blurbs that accompany the models in their catalog they advertise what versions can be made from the kit. They did with the Sherman/Firefly, the Tiger, and their Mark III's a IV's, but not on the Stug IIIG.
All three Shermans of mine are now complete (waiting on finding decals still). I did a little light weathering on them. Whoever saw a tank without a little mud.
Tell you the truth I enjoy these builds more than any ship I have ever done. I am so burned out with ships that I may not touch one for another six months and just do armor and the occasional P40 (never can have enough P40's say I).
The Stug is a neat little bugger. Monogram made one back in the day along with a few versions of the Mark IV. Monogram was bought out by Revell, and Revell here in the States have been taken over by a company called Atlantis. Hope they will reissue them sometime, but they were all either 1/32 or 1/35, don't recall. I do remember they had at least once version with molded Zimmerit. I think it also gad a shell penetration in the side skirt armor too.
Maybe you could kit bash the early model Stug with the short barrel 75 off of a Mark III or IV.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 20, 2020 12:17:11 GMT
They are totally different Chuck, so adding a 75mm L/24 just won’t work, mainly because the 75mm L/43 versions have different gun citadels. The later models have extra panniers and more sloped armour with main change being a commander’s cupola and MG mount and shield.
The early marks are very basic with large square hatches on the roof and a more basic gun mantlet, the later versions had a totally different mantlet with some even having the ‘sows head’ mantlet. Plus, they also bolted extra armour to give the later makes a chunkier look.
I have found a kit that covers the early mark [ausf C I think], but it is from a firm which is new to me called ‘Trumpeter’, they do a 1/72 kit of this AFV, so I will try and research this. Try this site for decals.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 20, 2020 16:24:55 GMT
Trumpeter would over-complicate a steel ball. If one part will ddo nicely, they in true Chinese fashion will give you ten. I have built a lot of Trumpeter ships, and when complete they are very nice models, but getting them complete is a lot harder than it seems. Trumpeter is basically the reason for my ship model building burn out.
Good site for decals Ian. Thanks. I am assuming you have used their products and the quality is high.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 20, 2020 20:58:35 GMT
No Chuck i have never used them. I have never bought decals, never needed to, every kit I have purchased had decals except for the PSC. I think it is a disgrace that they don't supply them with the model.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 20, 2020 21:45:31 GMT
Well, maybe not a disgrace, but certainly a pain in the area where the sun doth not shine.
Looking at all the stuff available, and viewing it with the perspective of someone new to the armor/fighting vehicle modeling community, it appears that the 15mm stuff from Flames of War/Team Yankee/et all offers the possibility of filling every nook and cranny of an Afrika Korps - Eighth Army collection, plus a boat load of modern stuff as well. Team Yankee has several new models for re;ease this year including an M1A1, and a Bradley. Their already on the market M1/IPM1 are the best I have seen in small scale for a long time.
Received notification that my new book "Operation Crusader" is on the way. With luck I will have it within a day or two and get a review up sometime next week.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 21, 2020 8:38:31 GMT
Chuck I forgot to ask, does your local hobby shop stock decals. If he doesn't stock them, he may be able to order some for you. The guy who runs our hobby shop, nips to Manchester every Thursday to stock up and collect anything that people order as one offs. Thursday has always been the midweek closing day for small shops. It is a tradition which has largely died out with the larger stores working a seven days week.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 21, 2020 17:40:19 GMT
Yes and no. They stock the decals and paint sets for Flames of War/Team Yankee, but I think that is part of the package deal when you want to carry the line of models. For anything else they do not stock decals. They tell me that decals have too short a shelf life, and they just do not sell fast enough to warrant stocking them, not wanting to get involved with the customer complaining when they buy an old decal set and the decals fail.
The mail order places are the best bet for decals.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 21, 2020 19:40:01 GMT
Chuck, I have left a few messages on other sites concerning decals on line, so we shall see.
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Post by yanmacca on Jan 22, 2020 11:47:42 GMT
Chuck, I feel ashamed, one of my friends has sent me a post saying that I should check out the PSC website and behold they do their own range of decals link
Why I didn't think of this I really don't know!
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2020 15:56:26 GMT
Show me a man who was never mistaken, and I will show you a man who has never done anything in his whole miserable life. Ashamed, nonsense, you found the answer. Thank you.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 28, 2020 19:27:46 GMT
Ian: As you know my three Sherman's are complete (except decals), and I have three Tigers on the way from Michigan. Like the Sherman's the Tigers come in a box of three, and three different versions can be built. I was surprised that PSC does not produce a King Tiger, and I am anxious to build at least one.
I also picked up some of those pre-made wooden bases. They only have to be stained and are very reasonably priced. They look pretty good with a tank mounted on them. Very professional. Don't know if I will do a base for each tank or vehicle I build, or just stain a few (five or six) and rotate the display.As I am building these models for display, and not gaming, I am sticking to 1/72nd scale for the moment, concentrating on building a diversified collection and not a Panzerarmee.
I looked at some Revell of Germany armored vehicles, but was wondering if they come with the plastic treads like PSC. There are a few interesting pieces in what they have to offer.
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