Civil War Prison Camps

[deadwoodgultch]

A we bit of trivia for those who have always thought that Andersonville was a war crime, I am among them, but it was not alone. Both sides carry the same blame, but history is general told by the victors.

Federals in Confederate Prison Camps during the war    Total         Deaths

                                                                                270, 000   22,576  8.36%

Confederates in Union Prison Camps                             220,000    26,436  12.02%

Deaths at Andersonville, Union Prisoners 24%

     "     "  Libbie               "           "       NA

Deaths at Point Lookout Conf.        "       25%

    "      "    Elmira            "            "       44%

    "      " Rock Island, IL  "             "       28%  

[yanmacca]

Tom, it was still going on in 1945.

link

[deadwoodgultch]

Good read, thanks or that, Ian.

This segment, among others, of your link dispels the myth Mr. Bacque was trying to foist on the public and the hit job he was putting on a dead man.

The report continues: "An additional group of 663,576 are listed as 'other losses,' consisting largely of members of the Volkssturm [ People's Militia ] released without formal discharge."

It takes little imagination to see what happened here. The People's Militia consisted of older men (up to 60 years of age, mainly World War I veterans) and boys of 16 or sometimes less. American guards and camp authorities told the old men to go home and take care of their grandchildren, the boys to go home and return to school. Along with the transfers to other zones that Mr. Bacque ignores, these people account for all the "missing million."

Regards,
Tom

[yanmacca]

Your welcome Tom.

I remember a TV documentary about this subject being shown around the time of that report by Bacque, it was very graphic and shown German POWs kept in fenced off fields with no cover. I have tried to find the program on youtube but without success.

I was meaning to post something about this subject for years now, but out of respect to the US servicemen on this and the other boards, I declined, but your post gave me the platform to show that document in the link.

[quincannon]

What seems odd to you about German prisoners being kept in barbed wire fenced off fields Ian? There is a lot of film coverage of that, particularly in North Africa. That is the way, and only way it can be done initially, until you can process them and send them off to better quarters. They don't call them POW cages for nothing. They are cages.

Where would you suggest the Afrika Korps be initially housed after 200,000 plus of them were captured in Tunisia?

One thing you will find about Americans, relating to you "out of respect" comment, is that we don't mind anyone being critical of us as long as the criticism is justified. Criticism only makes you better.

[yanmacca]

Oh well I will shoot from the hip in future.

That is why I wanted to show you the footage in the documentary, you would have to see the program to see what I am on about otherwise we will get nowhere.

[quincannon]

By just saying they were in "fenced off fields with no cover" you were shooting from the hip. As I pointed out to you that is the way it is initially done. If you have something that says that this was more than initial treatment, rather a long term affair, and these POW's were put into a situation that is contrary to Geneva Convention standards, I want to hear about it.

Like LBH stories footage in a documentary can show anything that the producer of the documentary wants to show and give that film any slant he damned well pleases. As to the book by that Canadian son of a bitch, and even considering that Ambrose is a complete piece of shit, I can tell you that Dwight D Eisenhower would never stand for what he is accused of in that book. He saw the concentration camps first hand and considered them the most revolting thing he ever experienced in his life, and that author has him condoning the same thing.

Will you please stop putting out everything you hear and see, until you take the time to thoroughly investigate the matter before opining on it in public. If you remember the old Disney movie Davy Crockett - Crockett's motto was - BE SURE YOU'RE RIGHT, then go ahead. So be sure, before you go ahead, or you're asking to have your head bitten off. To put it in other terms MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE

[dave]

My paternal GGGrandfather, George Washington Litton of the 29th Virginia was captured at the Battle of Dinwiddie Court House on April 1, 1865. He was sent to Harts Island POW camp where he died in May of 1865.

My maternal GGGrandfather, Joseph Piner of the 3rd North Carolina was captured at the Battle of Mine Run on November 27, 1863. He was sent to Point Lookout POW camp where was paroled in August of 1864. He returned home and stayed there for the duration.

The Confederate POW camps where as much of a hell hole as any in the North. The South was starving and Union prisoners suffered according but that does not excuse the Confederates. The refusal of the Confederate Government to accord POW status to Colored Troops led to the cessation of prisoner exchanges. Later Grant realized the South was running out of manpower, as the North held the advantage of numbers and continued the cessation of paroling prisoners.

The North treated captured soldiers as poorly as did the South and created a hell on earth as bad as any in the South.
Regards
Dave

[quincannon]

Absolutely correct. War ain't beanbag, but then there were no enforceable rules on either side as to the humane treatment of prisoners. Both North and South were mere choirboys though when you compare what happened in the ACW to the British treatment of prisoners during the revolution. More people died in the prison hulks moored in the East River, very near the old Brooklyn Navy yard, by percentage than anything that Tom posted above

Recalling all this, although distasteful, is valuable when those among us rail about how well POW's and illegal enemy combatants are treated today. The Geneva accords are man's poor attempt to insert humanity into war. They must be conformed to, if we are to retain some shred of our own humanity.

[deadwoodgultch]

Prisoner treatment remains a problem, some of the folks we fight today ignore and are not signee's to Geneva. While we wring our hands about Abu Grab and Gitmo, our adversaries think nothing about bad treatment up to and including lopping heads off.

I know of a German family who's father was interred in MT from late 43 to the end of the war and said he was fed better in MT than he was when he was still fighting. He was a party member and had nothing but nice things to say about his captors. He was de-Nazified before he returned home in the Summer of 45. He was from Darmstadt and spent his early return times working for the US Army to help return his country to some early degree of normalcy. I have hunted with his son on the Eastern Shore of MD.

We as a world society need to improve every day our understanding of one another and learn to live together and respect one another. In real terms.

Regards,
Tom

[quincannon]

Our every human instinct with regard to prisoners (actually classified as illegal combatants) is to immediately shoot them, or worse. Shooting an illegal combatant is actually allowed under the Geneva Convention. We must never do that though, for the very reason Tom has laid before you. If we treat them, as they treat us, we are no better than they are. That must not be lest we eventually lose our right to call ourselves civilized.