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Post by yanmacca on Sept 10, 2018 18:21:00 GMT
Chuck, I am aware that these documents are one man's thesis, but aren't they not regulated in anyway?
Say a captain puts together his version of Bull Run and it is littered with inaccuracy's, then wouldn't this document be vetted by some senior officers who will pull it apart?
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Post by quincannon on Sept 10, 2018 19:19:08 GMT
They are just like any other masters thesis at any other college Ian. They are submitted, and reviewed for content, and then either accepted or rejected, based upon proving of the original thesis. The problem is that if I the writer set out to prove something I may only include those facts that support my position, and not all the facts appertaining to the subject at hand.
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on Sept 10, 2018 19:54:42 GMT
Be very careful with documents such as these. This is a Master's Thesis submitted to the School of Advanced Military Studies at the Command and General Staff College. As such it has an agenda, that being to present and defend the author's view of the subject. In short one man's opinion. As with all of this type there are good and not so good. This one is better than many, but still, it is one man's opinion, and one that presents, in my view, some false contrasts. Yes, that sounds familiar. Just like some books about Custer and the Little Big Horn. Many are agenda driven. Be Well Dan
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Sept 10, 2018 21:56:40 GMT
Very true Dan and as QC cautioned care must be taken evaluating sources. In the age of the internet I spend a lot of time explaining to young people not to believe everything they read but rather to check and evaluate sources. I think we do a pretty good job of that here and that is witnessed by this thread.
Cheers
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 11, 2018 18:33:05 GMT
I do get some enjoyment out of finding these old documents, I know that you have to tread wearily with some of them, but as QC has said this one seems better then some and that is why I choose it for verification from my friends and colleagues.
I noticed when I read it, it was very detailed in respect to all those who fought at the Rosebud and contained many accounts from the officers who commanded the various companies both Infantry and Cavalry.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on Sept 11, 2018 22:11:32 GMT
There is an interesting part in it relating to the previous winter and the impact of Reynolds destroying Indian resources on the outcome that winter and hence in the next summer.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 12, 2018 10:42:11 GMT
The Major who wrote that thesis was rewarded a slot at the Staff College, after probably 13 years of presumably good performance. He put a reasonable amount of research and produced a nice piece of work. You wonder where he is today.
I have read a number of Col. French MacLean's book, he did the same school. Ian and our neighbor Noggy would be interested in his WWII books.
Regards to Crook, Phillip Thomas Tucker is the author or editor of more than 20 books on the Civil War and African American, women's, and Irish history. He is a United States Air Force historian at Bolling Air Force Base in Washington, DC. he has written "Why Custer Was Never Warned." Nice snapshot of about how I feel. Still, in all, GAC must bear the responsibility for Custer's last mistake, another good name for a book.
Regards, Tom
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 12, 2018 13:54:16 GMT
I knew you were writing a book.
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 12, 2018 15:30:46 GMT
Tom Tubman you old dark horse you!
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 12, 2018 15:38:17 GMT
Ian, if I get a screen play "Old Nutriment"?
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 12, 2018 19:38:57 GMT
You make me sound like a breakfast bar Tom.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 13, 2018 12:13:39 GMT
Nah you would be seen in the open scene giving your take on the battle. It might go like this!
THE MEN caught the skeer from the coward Reno and acted accordin'. Dan Neally -- he's livin' at Gilt Edge, Montana now -- he's been goin' all these years as 'Cracker-box Dan' on account of durin' the fight he kept hid back of a cracker box. And Captain Miles Morland -- I've heerd he was buried in Los Angeles a spell back -- he was known as `Aparejo Mickie' 'cause all the time he was layin' behind an aparejo. And then they was young Billy Blake, a private. Fur two days up thar he made out like he was wounded and laid with the wounded so's he wouldn't have to fight, and he want hurt at all. Arter it was over and he come to his senses poor Billy was ashamed o' hisself. He couldn't stand the joshin' he got from the rest o' us and so he got transferred to another company. Now, Billy and Cracker-box Dan and Morland was brave men, nat'ral, good soldiers, but the skirmish they'd been through down below with Reno, plumb out o' his head with skeer yellin' orders they couldn't hear and the panicky retreat.
Have not written the rest and won't.
Regards, Tom
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Sept 13, 2018 12:36:18 GMT
Sure we believe that.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 13, 2018 14:50:04 GMT
Ok, enough of my horse play. So, here goes I have posted some of this elsewhere. I would like to thank Lee and Michele Noyes for the reminder. Photographer Edward S.Curtis was among those intrigued by the mystery of the 1876 Battle of the Little Big Horn. In 1907, he persuaded three of the U.S. Army’s Crow scouts to guide him on the battlefield so as to follow the route of the five 7th Cavalry companies decimated with Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer. What the battle survivors Goes Ahead, Hairy Moccasin and White Man Runs Him told the photographer varied significantly from military interpretations of Custer’s Last Fight.
One widely held belief was (and is) that Major Marcus Reno’s retreat from the Little Big Horn valley was a principal cause of the battle’s outcome because it enabled warriors to concentrate in force against Custer’s immediate command. However, the scouts informed Curtis that Custer had witnessed Reno’s entire fight from the two peaks known as Weir Point, including the major’s chaotic retreat. White Man Runs Him claimed that Custer dismissed the scouts’ admonishment to assist Reno by telling them there was “plenty of time.” The five companies then proceeded north to their doom. Before Custer engaged the Indians the guide “Mitch” Boyer released the three scouts, who temporarily joined Reno’s battered command.
Based on what the scouts had told him, Curtis concluded that the real victim at the Little Big Horn was Reno, not Custer, and that an investigation of the battle was thus warranted. He also shared this story with several military scholars and his friend Theodore Roosevelt. Not believing the allegation, however, the President persuaded the photographer not to publish or otherwise pursue the matter.
The traditionalists and GAC fan folk obviously won this round. I still like T.R., but this is troubling.
Regards, Tom
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 439
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Post by colt45 on Sept 13, 2018 22:31:17 GMT
Tom, If the scouts' story is true, and it probably is, it means Custer hung Reno out to dry, along with 3 companies. This goes from Custer just being an incompetent commander to an almost criminal act. I can't imagine any commander willing sacrificing 1/4 of his combat power when there is nothing to gain by that action. The wanton disregard for the welfare of those under his command is appalling.
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