What books do you wish you could get your money back on

[Beth]

We all have them on our shelves.  They looked interesting at the time but for various reasons you found it not to be a good value.  A bit of insight on why you find the book lacking would be helpful.

[quincannon]

A very good question. The ones I have found that were a waste of my money are probably half of those I have. About fifteen years ago, I decided that it was really going to be a book I needed, rather than those that may have at first glance sparked my interest. Most of that was brought about by increasing use of the Internet. If the subject matter was somewhat new or strange to me, I would first read up on the subject on line. If it was still interesting after that I would consider purchase.

One other tool would be knowing the author's previous work. One that comes to mind in this category is my purchase of "Six Frigates" by Ian Toll. I knew next to nothing about the early U S Navy in the age of fighting sail. I purchased the book and was so impressed by the way Toll presented the subject matter, that I have bought all of the rest of his books as well and found them equally as good. Same goes for James Hornfischer. Can't say the same for many others, I am usually less than impressed by Alamo and LBH books. No matter who writes them they are all fanboys in one form or other, and not a damned one of them break any new ground. Each try to put more lipstick on the same goddamned pig.

The exception of course is Walter Lord who never wrote a bad word in his life. Lord's books "Night to Remember"  "A Time to Stand" "Dawn's Early Light" "Incredible Victory" and "Day of Infamy" are what makes a hot cup of tea, a freshly filled pipe, and your favorite easy chair all that much more pleasurable. More like Forester, and Kent in fiction, than the stale bread of opinion filled history.

[Beth]

I wish that Lord had taken an interest in LBH. I imagine based on his other books it would have been a very good read.

[quincannon]

I think Lord was smart enough to stay as far away as possible from LBH.

I think the tell in what he would do with such a controversial subject is telegraphed in "Time to Stand" He takes no particular viewpoint in the more controversial areas of that battle, which I would think impossible to do with LBH other than to mention Custer and the river itself.

One thing about Lord that I find so valuable comes from my own interest in the Alamo story. Any professional military person past their second day of basic training will tell you that Travis was no commander. I won't go into the why of that. His mistakes as a commander were so numerous that they nearly defy listing. What Lord points out in his opening chapter of "Stand" is that despite his faults as a commander, he was an outstanding leader. Probably took me six or eight readings to glom onto what Lord was trying to tell me. In that first chapter Lord tells us by focusing on the 23rd of February letter that there would not be this singular bookmark in our country's history, that was the Alamo.  Without that letter addressed to his fellow Texians and all the Americans in the world, it would have been just another frontier fight, and the letter alone elevates Travis to the throne room of the immortals.

[Beth]

I read Stand on your recommendation and found it engrossing. I do agree that without Travis's letter the Alamo would be as famous as perhaps any other battle for Texas independence-known in Texas but not much outside of it.

The point of Travis being a leader but not a commander might also pertain to Custer--he was able to draw people to him because charisma but he was not able to translate that charisma into the ability to command. Would it be safe to say that the ability to lead and the ability to command are often totally separate skills?

[quincannon]

Custer in my opinion was neither leader or commander. He was the person some idiot mistakenly put in charge. He surrounded himself with bootlickers, sycophants, fanboys, and yes men, and alienated all others around him. That is neither what commanders or leaders do.

Leaders are team builders. Travis was able to build a team at the Alamo, by personal example, not military ability. There was probably not a man in the garrison who thought much of him as a commander, but they all stuck with him as a leader for thirteen days under the most difficult conditions, when most of them could have slipped away and escaped. The idiot that said the Alamo didn't have a back door does not know what he is talking about, and any one or nearly all (except the sick and wounded of course) could have used it at any time they pleased. They didn't, and only one man made that happen.

You cannot be a good commander without also being a good leader. You can be a good leader though without the knowledge and ability to command. The idea is willing obedience, and "willing" is the operative word.

[yanmacca]

As I said on another thread, I don't have that many books about this battle, the ones I have got are used more as reference books then anything else, because if you bought a whole bunch of books about the BLBH, you will find that most of them are quite good until it gets to the Custer part of the battle and then each author will give their own verdict on what transpired on battle ridge, which is mostly hearsay because no one can be 100% certain on what happened after Martini left.

[Beth]

When I first started getting really interested in the battle, I started by reading the more--shall we say--novelized versions of the battle-the ones that tend to make up dialogue or profess to know what different people think or what their motives are. At best they are secondary sources and often tertiary. I find now that those books are pretty much a waste of money and time--especially when you start to dig in deeper on things like how the army functions.

I would recommend sticking to primary sources.

[yanmacca]

Yes I agree Beth as your only getting some ones rendition on what happened after Custer mounted the bluffs.

[Beth]

I'll mention a book that I am glad someone gave to me because otherwise I would have felt I wasted money

The Mystery of E Troop: Custer's Gray Horse Company at the Little Bighorn by Gregory Michno.

[bret]

May 7, 2018 0:25:03 GMT Beth said:

I'll mention a book that I am glad someone gave to me because otherwise I would have felt I wasted money

The Mystery of E Troop: Custer's Gray Horse Company at the Little Bighorn by Gregory Michno.

That's bad news for me Beth, I just bought it !!! Haven't started reading it yet though. I'll let you know what I think ..

[yanmacca]

That book has always intrigued me, maybe its because of the title "The Mystery of E Troop"
So far no one has liked it so I never bothered with it, but let us know Bret because everyone views things different, horses for courses and all that.

Ian.

[Beth]

Let me know what you think Bret--I find what someone likes in a book can vary greatly.

[quincannon]

I did not care for that book either. He set out to foster his own narrative and agenda, and I believe he fell flat on his face.

[Beth]

May 8, 2018 1:25:05 GMT quincannon said:

I did not care for that book either. He set out to foster his own narrative and agenda, and I believe he fell flat on his face.

I picked it up again last night and thumbed through it to try to remember what it was I didn't like.  I agree with you, he had an agenda but he failed to really prove it.  Of course all writers have an agenda or they wouldn't write but this book in particular didn't add anything to the discussion and the research seemed weak.