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Post by Beth on May 2, 2018 21:16:05 GMT
Please state what books you would state as your most useful reference books related to the discussions on this board, particularly relating to the Battle of Little Bighorn. I know that other references also come into play beyond events of June 1876 so feel free to add them. It would help if you can explain why it is useful.
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mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mac on May 3, 2018 22:00:21 GMT
This post relates also to the discussion of which book to send back.
It amazes me that people will buy a book and plough through hundreds of pages but will refuse to read back into online threads at this (or other) forums. The understanding of this battle is still evolving as archaeology comes to hand.
Sure books are very useful especially, as Ian has said, as reference material but for anyone wanting to really learn, effort is needed.
Take the time and effort to read back into old threads is my first advice.
Cheers
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Post by quincannon on May 4, 2018 0:29:07 GMT
None of them in total. All of them in part.
Among my interests from teenage years onward are LBH and the Alamo. My first two books on these subjects were "Custer's Luck" by Stewart, and "The Alamo" by Myers. Both were written mid last century, and when they came out they both laid out all that was then known on the subject. Today both are hopelessly obsolete, although they still remain entertaining reading
The danger is that someone will this very day pick up a copy of each of them for they are both on sale at the appropriate museum bookstores. They will be dutifully read, opinions formed, and viewpoints staked out, as if the last seventy years of research had not occurred. I would venture to say that nearly everyone who lays total blame for defeat on Reno and Benteen first got it from Stewart, and for those who cling to the gallant romantic notions of five thousand Mexicans storming the mission, with every Texian dying at their posts, after sustaining three full blown attacks in broad daylight got it from Myers
They may have gotten it by proxy, Stewart and Myers being used as reference for later work, but look at the bibliography of those later works and you will find both those names.
This is all why I stated yesterday that all of these Alamo and LBH fanboys do by publishing the same tired. and in many cases dis-proven stories is to put more lipstick on the same old dead pig, and pass it off as new scholarly work, when most of it is just more bull shit.
When someone comes up with the same idea Hansen did in his "Alamo Reader" for the Little Big Horn story, you will find yourself standing in line behind me to buy it. Until then I have no intention of lining the pockets of pretend scholars, list makers, time keepers, and Three Card Monte dealers.
Mac has contributed more to LBH scholarship in two years than the rest of these clowns put together, multiplied by infinity. and it's been a damned good ride.
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Post by Beth on May 4, 2018 3:10:24 GMT
I agree about Mac contribution but have to add that nearly everyone has added a great deal. It is part of what makes this group different from the other message boards--we are not just discussing the same old same old--we have been working steadily for at least a couple of years testing and exploring a theory about the battle.
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Post by quincannon on May 4, 2018 15:09:22 GMT
Agree with you as well. Mac was mentioned because he was the center line of thrust.
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Post by dan25 on May 4, 2018 16:50:13 GMT
The amount of information and knowledge on this board is staggering. If a person tried to match this information by purchasing books they would have to take out a loan, and possibly have an addition to their home to accommodate that number of books, with no guarantee they would learn any more than what is already available here.
I know, a bit of exaggerating, but I think you get my point.
The main interest is of coarse the BLBH, however I for one certainly enjoy all the other topics discussed.
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on May 4, 2018 19:57:14 GMT
There are some fine research books, but I think the book that got more people interested in the LBH than any other was "Son Of The Morning Star" by Evan Connell.
Be Well Dan
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Post by Beth on May 7, 2018 0:20:49 GMT
Back to useful books, or perhaps highly recommended books. Fred Wagner's Strategy of Defeat...I know that we have often comment on how anything beyond the high point on the bluff is conjecture and that the timing is too tight but I find the book useful to get a general time line as well as the order of events. Fred Wagner's Participants in the Battle of the Little Big Horn...I know quite a bit of the information is available online but this book puts it all at your fingertip and a lot easier to find. Michael Donahue Drawing Battle Lines: The Map Testimony of Custer's Last Fight...MAPS!!! I love maps. My personal favorites--any by Douglas Scott--I enjoy the archaeological studies of the battlefield. Other sources that are easily avaible The Godfrey Diary Terry's diary -very dry but worth reading The transcripts from the Reno Court of Inquiry ( available here) John Stands In TImber account of the battle ( available here)Anyone want to add more?
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Post by yanmacca on May 7, 2018 9:40:32 GMT
Another book which is great from a reference angle, is "Where Custer Fell" linkIt has loads of old photos mixed with new ones taken on the same location, kind of then and now shots, plus lots of maps.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on May 8, 2018 12:17:42 GMT
I would also check out: Lt. Col. Graham's books(early but very well researched). Wooden Leg by T. Marquis. "Custer Companion" by Thom Hatch. Great for background on all officers and many participants, a bit of a Reno/Benteen hater but does not affect the work. "Vanishing Victory" Bruce Liddic "Custer and Company Walter Camp's Notes on the Custer Fight" Bruce Liddic and Paul Harbaugh Liddic is a we bit overboard for GAC but both books are also well researched.
One of my personal favorites "Custer's Best: The Story of Company M, Seventh Cavalry at the Little Bighorn". Will give you the best understanding of the valley fight.
Beth, your list is top drawer and required me to go old.
Regards, Tom
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Post by yanmacca on May 8, 2018 19:22:33 GMT
Funny enough Tom, the Company M book has a review paragraph which reads;
Company M. With a tragically-flawed, but extremely brave Company Commander and a no-nonsense First Sergeant, Company M maintained a disciplined withdrawal from the skirmish line fighting, saving Major Marcus Reno’s entire detachment and possibly the rest of the regiment from annihilation.
By accounts, French was a good officer and what I have read about 1st Sgt Ryan shows that he took time out to train his men, I think he left a detailed account of this in a diary. M Company was one of the largest companies serving in the 7th on that day with 48 all ranks and French was an officer down as Lt. Mathey was detached and took over command of the pack train.
BTW; French was one of the best shots in the regiment, apparently only Lt. Cooke could rival him.
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Post by Beth on May 9, 2018 0:45:35 GMT
Graham's book is a bargain if you use Kindle link
Wooden Leg is under a buck even linkI'll try to add links to other books later.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on May 9, 2018 12:42:34 GMT
Thanks Beth, I was jus rattling off very decent, well researched, quality material. That follow up is great.
Regards, Tom
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on May 9, 2018 12:52:38 GMT
I would add Gordon Harper's The Fights on the Little Horn. Gordie believes the 5 companies went north and that separates him from many others. Most likely Mike's book in May will be on my list. I ordered a hard copy and he should have some available to sign in June. I am sure the trading post will have them and you can have a hamburger at the same time.
I am looking forward to his take on Custer's route to MTC. I am pretty sure we rode it twice but will wait to see it in print and the explanation for his opinion.
Steve
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Post by yanmacca on May 9, 2018 13:01:11 GMT
Alas I have not got the Gordie book, When people keep asking me what I want for my birthday of Christmas, I always forget about that book, I must get it though, maybe in July?
Steve, do those hamburgers actually have ham in them or are they just all beef?
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