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Post by quincannon on Mar 13, 2018 0:09:39 GMT
Don't know, but as I said elsewhere I don't believe Kanipe was the sharpest knife in the drawer.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 13, 2018 0:30:49 GMT
It is beginning to sound as if Custer choose a right bunch of divs for his couriers, a sergeant who couldn't count and a trumpeter who can't speak English.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 13, 2018 3:34:14 GMT
Custer did not choose Kanipe. His brother did.
Obviously you have never been a company first sergeant Ian, First Sergeants do not ordinarily detail their brightest and best to a higher headquarters.
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Post by yanmacca on Mar 13, 2018 14:22:06 GMT
When Benteen was sent on his scout, Custer sent out two of his HQ Staff with messages to him. These messages were just simple orders mainly telling him to keep heading in a certain direction yada yada.
The two men sent were Chief Trumpeter Voss and 1st RSM Sharrow. So two men with experience enough to be on the staff and in Sharrow's case, his most senior NCO. But what does he do when he needs a real job doing, like ordering a battalion commander to bring his men and the packs forward? He sends a bloke who can’t speak the lingo.
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Mar 13, 2018 16:19:30 GMT
Which to me is a indicator what Custer was thinking at the time. How much importance did he place on getting the message to Benteen?
Regards
Steve
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Post by quincannon on Mar 13, 2018 18:21:55 GMT
Ian: It is always best to have stable, well educated, motivated people to handle your communications. I was especially careful in selecting Radio Telephone Operators (RTO's), the trumpeters and buglers of my day. Often they would speak for me, and because of their position would be fully aware of what was going on within the whole of my command, be it at platoon, company, or battalion level. My platoon sergeant, first sergeant, or battalion sergeant major were read into what I was doing and thinking as well.
I am not at all sure that Custer had the luxury of such choices as I had. The Army of his day, in terms of quality of enlisted personnel, was quite different from my day, and the Army of today is quite a step up from what I knew.
I was very fortunate to have a college educated economics major as an RTO when I was a platoon leader, along with a long serving but less educated platoon sergeant. Together we built a mutual bond of trust in each other's abilities. I never therefore was ever concerned about what was happening within my command group when I was absent. I knew it would carry on without my presence as if I had been there myself.
Now to the point. Custer, I believe took an abnormal level of comfort in the presence of those he chose to surround himself with. We, I believe, all agree that the infamous note to Benteen required more than someone to carry a piece of paper. It required someone who had a level of intelligence and awareness to be able to paint a picture for Benteen as to what was going on at present with Custer, and be so familiar with the situation as to be able to relay to Benteen, Custer's future intentions. I think Custer was reluctant to depart from his zone of comfort, which is itself a sign of a person with hidden levels of insecurity. Insecure people gain a sort of artificial strength from those they surround themselves with. In other words in their minds all will be well if I have Joe, Jim, Bill and Bob at my side, and everything may go to hell if one or more of these people depart from my company.
You will note that when Custer sent Sharrow and Voss off Custer was sitting on his fat ass on the Powder River with nothing happening, but when push came to shove on the Little Big Horn, was when he turned to that day's illiterate as a messenger. All this a sign of a man so insecure he cannot part with his minders.
I am not at all sure I agree with Steve in the importance Custer placed on that note. Under different circumstances I could see sending a Martini myself, were it a simple matter of directing someone's actions that I could see. It wasn't, so in my judgment it should have been an intelligent individual that I trusted, with some decent level of experience to enable that someone to translate and elaborate upon the simplicity of the written word, should there be need to do so.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Mar 13, 2018 20:12:51 GMT
Quincannon wrote:
Now to the point. Custer, I believe took an abnormal level of comfort in the presence of those he chose to surround himself with. We, I believe, all agree that the infamous note to Benteen required more than someone to carry a piece of paper. It required someone who had a level of intelligence and awareness to be able to paint a picture for Benteen as to what was going on at present with Custer, and be so familiar with the situation as to be able to relay to Benteen, Custer's future intentions. I think Custer was reluctant to depart from his zone of comfort, which is itself a sign of a person with hidden levels of insecurity. Insecure people gain a sort of artificial strength from those they surround themselves with. In other words in their minds all will be well if I have Joe, Jim, Bill and Bob at my side, and everything may go to hell if one or more of these people depart from my company.
You will note that when Custer sent Sharrow and Voss off Custer was sitting on his fat ass on the Powder River with nothing happening, but when push came to shove on the Little Big Horn, was when he turned to that day's illiterate as a messenger. All this a sign of a man so insecure he cannot part with his minders.
Read Stiles! From the Clap, to gambling, to destruction.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Mar 13, 2018 20:16:52 GMT
Don't need to read Stiles Tom. Custer was on a downward spiral from Appomattox onward, if not before. Nearly every text tell us so, if you know what to look for in those texts.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 19, 2023 21:02:06 GMT
Don't need to read Stiles Tom. Custer was on a downward spiral from Appomattox onward, if not before. Nearly every text tell us so, if you know what to look for in those texts. Interesting note on Stiles. My girlfriend is a librarian is the Sausalito area north of SF. Couple of years ago, Stiles spoke at a library function she moderated. This was just after his Custer book. She asked me if I had any questions I'd like to ask him (I did not attend). I had yet to really begin reading on the LBH but I had just read the story on Frank Finckle, who claimed to have survived the battle. So I asked her to ask him if he bought his (Finkle's) story. His response, relayed by her, was as if I had just accosted his youngest daughter. How dare I ask a question that doesn't relate to his work. I read his Custer book, good but barely mentions LBH. I've since seen him as a writer and not a historian, but that's me.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 19, 2023 23:12:34 GMT
You aren't wrong, except when calling him a writer when the term should be hack to be more accurate.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 20, 2023 4:13:34 GMT
Fair enough. Needless to say, haven’t read any of his other books.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 20, 2023 4:44:58 GMT
In not doing so you have probably saved yourself the price of at least one case of Pepto Bismol.
He reminds me of another guy who used to write on World War II and had a very good reputation among the mindless idiots whom he bamboozled into thinking he knew his stuff. You have probably heard of him, Stephen Ambrose. Everything the man has published is garbage. The facts are though that he never did his own work. He left that to snotty nosed research assistants who would not know a bazooka from a broomstick. Then there was another by the name of Whiting who never saw a mistake he was unwilling to make.
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Post by Elwood on Feb 20, 2023 22:34:57 GMT
Well didn’t realize that about Ambrose. Hope you’ll go easy on me, about 12-13 years ago read his Lewis n Clark book. Thought it was good, whoever wrote it. My Sister gave me another one of his books, dont recall which one but never got around to reading it, not even sure what happened to it.
Unfortunately that is a problem in journalism. One guys names on a book as the writer and maybe in fine print somewhere else are the names of the ones who did the real work, if not all the work. I’ve definitely come across it and not just in the historical realm.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 20, 2023 23:24:34 GMT
I don't know what he did with Lewis and Clark. I was mainly referring to his WWII stuff. His "D Day" was so miserable, with so many mistakes I got to about page fifty, and threw it in the trash can. "Band of Brothers" was written for him. Book was not so great. The mini series much better. That is the opposite of how it usually goes
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