Three survivors

[yanmacca]

Mac asked if we could maybe start a thread on three soldiers who last saw the Custer column, in that we mean Peter Thompson,
Trumpeter Martini and Sergeant Kanipe. Now to get the ball rolling I have posted a link to each of their accounts and also kept them to the same web site.

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[yanmacca]

Here is a segment from Kanipe's account;

When we reached within a quarter of a mile of the junction of Benteen's creek with the Little Big Horn I sighted Indians on the top of the range of bluffs over the Little Big Horn river. I said to First Sergeant Bobo, "There are the Indians."
General Custer threw up his head about that time and we [Troops "C, E, I, and F] headed for the range of bluffs where we had seen the Indians. Tom Custer, brother of the general, was captain of my troop, "C." We rode hard, but when we reached the top the Indians were gone.

However, we could see the tepees for miles. The Crow Indian scouts with our outfit wanted to slip down and get a few ponies. Some of them did slip down, but they got shot for their pains. Chief Scout Mitch Bouyer, Curley and Bloody Knife stayed up on the bluffs with us.

Well, sir, when the men of those four troops saw the Indian camp down in the valley they began to holler and yell, and we galloped along to the far end of the bluffs, where we could swoop down on the camp.
I was riding close to Sergeant Finkle. We were both close to Capt. Tom Custer. Finkle hollered at me that he couldn't make it, his horse was giving out. I answered back: "Come on Finkle, if you can." He dropped back a bit.

Just then the captain told me to go back and find McDougall and the pack train and deliver to them orders that had just been issued by General Custer.

Tell McDougall, he said, "to bring the pack train straight across to high ground, if packs get loose don't stop to fix them, cut them off. Come quick. Big Indian camp.

I went back. I thought then that was tough luck, but it proved to be my salvation. If Sergeant Finkle had not dropped back a few minutes before he would have got the orders and I would not be telling this story.

I thought that he would have give a point were he turned back, but alas not.

[dan25]

There is something about Sgt.Kanipe being chosen to take a message to McDougall that doesn't seem to add up.

1. Why did Capt. T. Custer give him the message, and not Lt. Cooke?

2. Both Trumpeter's were present. Each day one was assigned as company Trumpeter and the second was assigned as a messenger. Why not use the messenger?

3. The company only had 3 sergeants and 2 corporals. According to Kanipe Sgt. Finckle had already dropped out, that left only 2 Sgt's. Why loose another NCO with a message?

4. Martini was told, after delivering his message if the way was clear to return. Why wasn't Kanipe told to do the same? Or was he told and he just forgot?

5. After reaching McDougal I don't think he could use the excuse his horse was played out, since I assume there were spare horses. Boston Custer went back and got a fresh horse.

regards
dan25

[yanmacca]

True enough Dan, I am sure that Kanipe said that Pvt Goldin [G Company] was also used as a orderly that day and was sent back before him with a message.

[dan25]

Private Theadore Goldin, company G.

Goldin enlisted in the U.S. Army on April 8, 1876, lying about his age. (His year of birth is thus often incorrectly listed as 1855.) He was assigned to the 7th U.S. Cavalry. Less than three months later, Goldin's regiment fought in the Battle of Little Bighorn.

Beginning with a letter to the editor published in the Janesville Daily Gazette in 1886, Goldin began to publish his version of the Battle of Little Big Horn, in which he castigated Major Marcus Reno and praised General George A. Custer. Goldin claimed that Custer gave him a last message to be carried to Reno, shortly before Custer was killed.

Goldin also campaigned to be awarded the Medal of Honor for his role in the Battle of Little Big Horn, writing to Captain Frederick Benteen and speaking to Lieutenant Luther Hare in person. In 1896 Joseph Doe, a fellow Wisconsin politician and Mason, and also Assistant Secretary of War, found that there sufficient evidence for approval of a Medal of Honor for Goldin.

As the years went by, Goldin embellished his role in the battle more and more. The height of embellishment is found in a chapter in the book Northwestern fights and fighters by Cyrus Townsend Brady. In addition to his claims of carrying Custer's last dispatch, Goldin claimed he joined the Seventh Cavalry in 1873, witnessed the death of Lt. Benjamin Hodgson, and was present for a discussion of strategy between Captain Myles Keogh and General Custer. When others challenged his claims, Goldin claimed that Brady had distorted his letter.

Goldin's embellishments did not stop at his role in the Battle of Little Big Horn. He also added to his own personal biography. In a sketch published in a book about Rock County, he claimed to have been born in 1855, studied at Tilton University for four years and then, at age twenty, enlisted in the Army, where he served for nearly four years. The book also claims he was wounded twice at the Battle of Little Big Horn and was discharged due to disability.

In 1924, a Missouri congressman helped Goldin obtain a pension as a Medal of Honor recipient through a special act of Congress. In 1927, he was able to change his discharge from "not honorable" (due to his lies about his age) to "honorable" with the help of prominent friends.

Goldin carried on, for some years between 1891 and 1896, a correspondence with Captain Benteen, and the two became friends. Benteen's letters (but not Goldin's replies, which have not been preserved) were eventually published as the Benteen-Goldin Letters and are one of the few primary sources for Benteen's views on the battle.

[dan25]

Yan, In your original post you list 3 survivors, one being Private Peter Thompson. According to Thompson he was with another soldier, Private James Watson.

Watson enlisted in the 7th U.S. Cavalry in 1875 in Cincinnati, Ohio. He was assigned to Company C, and served under Captain Thomas W. Custer. He participated in the Battle of the Little Bighorn River on June 25–26 June 1876, where, as his company approached the bluffs overlooking the river, Watson’s horse and that of another man, Peter Thompson, gave out. Watson was able to get his horse up again, but the two men were unable to keep up with their company, which was in a battalion under the command of Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer. Watson and Thompson continued on to the river, but were unable to rejoin Custer. They returned to the bluffs and joined the remaining elements of the regiment under Maj. Marcus Reno.

That makes 4 survivors, at least for now.


What is interesting is the statement, "Watson and Thompson continued on to the RIVER, but were unable to rejoin Custer".

[quincannon]

Kanipe was told by T. Custer to go back. It would have been a breech of "chain of command" for him to be given any message or told anything directive by Cooke.

Why was Kanipe chosen? I don't know. Personally I would have told Bobo to go back to the trains, and for the same reason, Mac has Harrington sending Bobo to Keogh and Company I.

There were four sergeants with Company C, Bobo, Kanipe, Finckle and Finerty.

There were four privates that dropped out of Company C due to jaded horses, Thompson, Watson, and two others whose names do not readily come to mind. All four survived the battle.

Thomson's story in total is pure poppycock. Parts of it though are true, and he provides some valuable information early on in his story.

Goldin was a complete fraud from the beginning

[dan25]

QC, I didn't mention Bobo because he was the 1st sergeant and I wouldn't expect him to be sent with a message before a Trumpeter or a lower grade NCO.
As for Sgt. Finerty, I can't find him on the roster, or on the killed roster.

Besides Bobo, the only other Sergeant's I have are Sgt. Hanley and Sgt. Miller, both on detached service. Could you point me in the right direction for some info?

[quincannon]

Finckle-Finerty Ridge is named for Sergeants Finckle and Finerty, both of whom died there. Appendix F "Of Garryowen In Glory" by LTC Melborn C. Chandler, USA

First Sergeant Bobo would be the ideal candidate to carry such a message. He was an experienced NCO, who could fill both Benteen and MacDougal in on the tactical situation and advise them on how to proceed. The mission entailed more than mouthing a message.

The message Martini carried should have been carried by an officer messenger too, or at least the Regimental Sergeant Major. It should have been detailed and explicit as to what Benteen was expected to do.

When and if you ever find yourself in the same situation and with the absence of current and pertinent information that both Benteen and MacDougal had, it is best if you may inquire of someone who can give you the answers you require, and not someone whose most advanced skill at the time was picking his nose. Kanipe,as evidenced by his own narrative on this thread, that Ian provided, was not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, and Martini was a functional illiterate.

[dan25]

QC, I think you mean Sgt. Finley, not Finerty.

[yanmacca]

Dan, I didn't include Watson because no written record of his exploits exist. Watson only spoke about his adventure to other troopers in the seventh and later after he had left the army he passed his story to another trooper named Slapper.
So apart from that his story would be open to all kinds of mistreatment as he personally told his story to any writer, so he never got the chance to say it like it was.

I thought that some one would have mentioned about Thompson saying that only four companies mounted the bluffs, he mentions C, E, I and F, but no L, which is funny because L was the largest company in the Custer battalion.

Here is a breakdown of men from Custer's battalion, who didn't make it to the battlefield.

C Company:
Pvt J Fitzgerald
Pvt J Brennan
Pvt M Farrar
Pvt P Thompson
Pvt J Watson
Pvt N Short

E Company:
Pvt W Shields [Dr Porters Orderly so had an excuse]
Pvt W Reese

F Company:
Pvt Lyons
Pvt Sweeny

I Company:
Pvt G Korn

L Company:
Pvt P McHugh

[yanmacca]

Here are the Officers, NCOs and Trumpeters from C Company
 
Captain T. Custer
2nd Lieutenant H. Harrington
1st Sergeant E. Bobo
Sergeant A. Finckle
Sergeant J. Finley
Sergeant W. Kanipe
Corporal J. Foley
Corporal H. French
Corporal D. Ryan
Trumpeter T. Bucknall
Trumpeter W. Kramer

[dan25]

Yan, Thank you for the info.
Add Goldin, Kanipe and Martini that's about 15 that didn't go, or one third of a average size company.

[quincannon]

Indeed I did mean Finley.

Kanipe only mentions four companies Ian, and he did it twice. Both times he missed Company L.

[yanmacca]

Thanks for pointing that out Chuck, I must have got things mixed up with all the names I have pulled out of the hat today.
I wonder why a Sergeant would make such a mistake.