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Post by quincannon on Aug 11, 2017 16:03:32 GMT
It is more likely that both Smith and T. Custer were found where they were for other reasons.
Both of G. Custer's wounds were immediately or near immediately fatal. I could readily see why G. Custer being wounded near Ford D or almost anyplace else would have his body thrown on the back of a horse and taken away, mainly in an effort to avoid mutilation.
What I do not see is any of the officers that would replace him, Yates, T. Custer, Keogh, staying and trying to duke it out with the hostiles, whose numbers were growing with each passing second. Staying up there was pure Custer.
The most likely scenario is that Smith was incapacitated early on and evacuated to LSH or some intermediate place then to LSH, and that T. Custer did not, or could not leave the area, perhaps from losing his horse or himself being wounded.
I think it highly unlikely that Custer was wounded early. I think it more unlikely that either of these people would check on him even if he was, given the distances involved, their primary responsibilities, and the immediate situation.
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 439
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Post by colt45 on Aug 11, 2017 16:19:58 GMT
Remember, If Tom was leading his company as Godfrey (?) stated, and all 5 companies were involved in actions at ford D, then during the withdrawal of C company from that line, Tom would have been one of the last to leave the area with his company, and quite possibly remained behind either by choice or circumstance. Most likely he was unable to evacuate due to hostile action, as were the other few C company men not found with the rest of the company. Or maybe he was with George and remained to command the troops that were in the immediate area, as we know the action around them at that time was hot and furious, and noisy.
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Post by quincannon on Aug 11, 2017 16:24:17 GMT
Indeed another possibility Colt, one I had not thought of, Tom remained because Yates was down. Very plausible.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 11, 2017 17:51:08 GMT
Here is one thing to chew on, now Tom Custer was found near his brothers on LSH, but the rump of his company was found over on the far side of the battlefield, now what would be the reasons why he would be with the HQ and not his company? Many say that he was acting as his brother's aide-de-camp, but as one officer put it, Tom was leading his company the last time he saw him. So many think that Custer was shot at a ford, now what if that ford was ford D and that Tom left his company to check his brother to see how bad he was hit. I suppose that by the book, Tom was out of line by doing this, but these are the Custer's and this is Georges regiment so sod you all I am going to help my brother and be dammed. Now I know that there are some who would think that this is boarding on a court martial offense, but would it be uncommon for a sibling to do this act, let's not forget Reno did exactly that when he left his battalion and went searching for Hodgson's body, and he was not even a relative. So for Tom to be nursing George in an effort to get him back south is not that far fetched, maybe Smith did the same and left his company to check on his friend George and got cut off from his company. Now time for the flak. No flack Ian, you just have the wrong Custer getting shot at the river and he was thrown across his horse and kept near the Dr. and his family, while his company moved on.
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Post by quincannon on Aug 11, 2017 18:28:37 GMT
Another possibility, and that were it true may explain why Bobo stayed behind for a time with a few and then pulled out with Company I.
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Post by yanmacca on Aug 11, 2017 19:49:16 GMT
Remember, If Tom was leading his company as Godfrey (?) stated, and all 5 companies were involved in actions at ford D, then during the withdrawal of C company from that line, Tom would have been one of the last to leave the area with his company, and quite possibly remained behind either by choice or circumstance. Most likely he was unable to evacuate due to hostile action, as were the other few C company men not found with the rest of the company. Or maybe he was with George and remained to command the troops that were in the immediate area, as we know the action around them at that time was hot and furious, and noisy. Good solid answer Colt, but if we go along with this then that means that LSH was totally cut off, so we must discount any survivors from the Keogh sector, but looking at the markers, you can see a stream of them either heading to LSH or heading towards Calhoun. If Tom wanted to hang back then wouldn't he do it with a trumpeter or an NCO? The two C Company men who where found around Tom were both privates.
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Post by yanmacca on Aug 11, 2017 19:51:32 GMT
Here is one thing to chew on, now Tom Custer was found near his brothers on LSH, but the rump of his company was found over on the far side of the battlefield, now what would be the reasons why he would be with the HQ and not his company? Many say that he was acting as his brother's aide-de-camp, but as one officer put it, Tom was leading his company the last time he saw him. So many think that Custer was shot at a ford, now what if that ford was ford D and that Tom left his company to check his brother to see how bad he was hit. I suppose that by the book, Tom was out of line by doing this, but these are the Custer's and this is Georges regiment so sod you all I am going to help my brother and be dammed. Now I know that there are some who would think that this is boarding on a court martial offense, but would it be uncommon for a sibling to do this act, let's not forget Reno did exactly that when he left his battalion and went searching for Hodgson's body, and he was not even a relative. So for Tom to be nursing George in an effort to get him back south is not that far fetched, maybe Smith did the same and left his company to check on his friend George and got cut off from his company. Now time for the flak. No flack Ian, you just have the wrong Custer getting shot at the river and he was thrown across his horse and kept near the Dr. and his family, while his company moved on. Hi Tom, you are a wealth of ideas, but are you suggesting that Tom was hit at the ford and not George? That would either mean that C Company was leading the advance or Tom was already with the HQ.
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Post by Beth on Aug 11, 2017 21:02:18 GMT
Will, First I would enjoy your participation in the Ford D discussions. Second I would disagree with my friends statements above. Chuck, most times, does argue from deeply held beliefs, but on occasion he can go off the reservation to poke the hornets nest, somewhat aggressively. And, Mac, let me say this, I have dealt with a number of UP folks, they did not get in that school, or out of it without superior reading skills, comprehension ability, and are much better than average critical thinkers. Also with what little I know about Montrose's military background I would say that Montrose has read or been read in on more than just the tables, charts, and manuals Ian has alluded to recently. Sorry all and montrose especially! Let me make it clear that the reading reference was to the fact that montrose has previously shared that he has VISION issues that make it difficult for him to read large volumes, like all the thread on 5 companies. Cheers If anyone has vision difficulties, I can easily change the font size or type to make it more readable-as it is now I have to increase the font size via Chrome settings from 100% to 125% to ease eye strain and at times I need to go higher. I have not made changes to the font or size because I thought I might be the only one to have problems. Also if the blue on white presents difficulty, that too can be changed to something with more contrast-I am always concern about things like color blindness because I have several friends who are color blind. It does no good to have a certain 'look' to a site, if no one can read it. Please just let me know what you need and if it is in my power I will do my best to provide it.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Aug 11, 2017 21:10:07 GMT
Stay away from red or green backgrounds. White type, blue background is find.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Aug 11, 2017 21:11:56 GMT
A little bigger print never hurt anyone. As to the color contrast question I have no suggestions for change. Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on Aug 11, 2017 21:21:17 GMT
Remember, If Tom was leading his company as Godfrey (?) stated, and all 5 companies were involved in actions at ford D, then during the withdrawal of C company from that line, Tom would have been one of the last to leave the area with his company, and quite possibly remained behind either by choice or circumstance. Most likely he was unable to evacuate due to hostile action, as were the other few C company men not found with the rest of the company. Or maybe he was with George and remained to command the troops that were in the immediate area, as we know the action around them at that time was hot and furious, and noisy. Good solid answer Colt, but if we go along with this then that means that LSH was totally cut off, so we must discount any survivors from the Keogh sector, but looking at the markers, you can see a stream of them either heading to LSH or heading towards Calhoun. If Tom wanted to hang back then wouldn't he do it with a trumpeter or an NCO? The two C Company men who where found around Tom were both privates. Memory lapse on my part but who were found around T. Custer from Company C and how positive was the identification at the time?
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Post by Beth on Aug 11, 2017 21:31:13 GMT
Stay away from red or green backgrounds. White type, blue background is find. I chose blue for a reason but I can go to a darker blue in the dialog box to increase contrast and go to a serif font because they tend to be easier to read. I am not limited to just Times Roman or Georgia which I am unsure if people would notice the difference and even if I have switched the font.
If anyone has any input or wants to discuss their needs, please do it in a private message (this font is Verdana at size 4 (14 points) for reference. The other two serif fonts are also at 14 points. Our normal font is Arial at size 3.
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Post by quincannon on Aug 11, 2017 21:34:27 GMT
Ian please explain to me why you reach those two conclusions you posted.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 12, 2017 1:10:25 GMT
Ian, it could have been Tom,as well as anybody else. I was just kidding, it could have been Keogh, that was recently floated, by someone.
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Post by yanmacca on Aug 12, 2017 11:04:19 GMT
Ian please explain to me why you reach those two conclusions you posted. No problem Chuck, I don't mind doing that for you, but I thought I made my point clear enough, so in the case of Colt’s, if TWC was not with his unit, then we must go for the likely option of him being with his brother, other than that I don’t know why he and Bobo, would stay behind to act in any defense of the area. I have sat here for years lisenting to all the various military people say this and that about how a commander should do this and that, but none of them ever say that the commander should either detach himself from his command or command a rear guard, you even explained it yourself some years back about how you would extract your company or battalion and you were never included in the rear unit, in fact I think you said you were second out of a total of three, but anyway you were not in any rear guard. The idea of Tom helping to run the show [due to a few officers being hit], would suggest that he placed himself higher than either Keogh [who was the senior captain of the battalion] or Yates. Then we have the option of TWC being cut off from his company, but again that would mean that he was the last one there [well apart from two privates] and Bobo had managed to get through. In the case of the markers, well you can take your choice, either they are out going or in coming, if they are incoming then the way was still open until the Keogh position fell. Tom said I got the wrong Custer, well I was talking about GAC being shot at the ford, so if he said that I got the wrong Custer, then he meant TWC was shot, which would either suggest that C company led the advance of Tom was with the HQ, but with the HQ lead this advance in a river crossing? Tom has since posted that he was jesting [you had me there Tom], so the last answer by me is null and void.
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