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Post by Beth on Jun 3, 2017 17:01:28 GMT
It would have been very difficult and take precious resources to transport bodies a great distance during a war until very recently and I seem to recall most of the transporting took place after the hostilities ended even then I believe a large number bodies were moved to American cemeteries on foreign soil, were some are treated with great care and respect and others are just forgotten by the host country. There was a change in social attitude about bringing everyone home sometime after WWII. As far as I can tell there is one UN cemetery in Korea but it has very few Americans in it and from this article, those bodies were unidentified and left as a token gesture. Attitudes about what to do with war dead has always changed over time perhaps as it's become easier to move bodies a great distance. I can't imagine with our current conflicts there would ever be a body left behind if it was humanly possible to retrieve, nor will we ever again have rows and rows as unidentified dead. |
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Post by quincannon on Jun 3, 2017 17:24:31 GMT
American Cemeteries in foreign countries, like the one at St. Laurent sur Mer, and the one that Patton is buried in, in Luxembourg are administered by the American Battle Monuments Commission and I believe have the same status as embassies and consulates, sovereign American territory.
Still every once and a while the body of an American soldier is uncovered, and that is especially true in the Bulge area
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Post by Beth on Jun 3, 2017 17:59:53 GMT
American Cemeteries in foreign countries, like the one at St. Laurent sur Mer, and the one that Patton is buried in, in Luxembourg are administered by the American Battle Monuments Commission and I believe have the same status as embassies and consulates, sovereign American territory. Still every once and a while the body of an American soldier is uncovered, and that is especially true in the Bulge area I was just reading an article about the dead buried in the Clark Veterans Cemetery at Clark Air Base in the Philippines and how it pretty much as become a weed infested jungle because no one was maintaining it. I suspect that it might fall in a different category over those we see in Europe since it was a base that was abandoned. The articles first start appearing in 2012 about it's conditions, the government resolution to handle it, then Philippine backlash (though I am unsure of that last post since it is the only reference I can find. |
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 3, 2017 18:31:19 GMT
All of our commonwealth war cemeteries are really looked after well all over the world.
The Russians never gave much thought with the German dead, they simply buried the lot in an unmarked trench and grassed over it.
A friend of mine, whose father was one of the top RSMSs in the country, said that he was offered a commission for his service, but because he and his wife came from a working class part of Widnes, his wife wouldn't fit, because he was well known for her industrial language so to speak and we cannot have that at the officers ball.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 3, 2017 20:06:22 GMT
Beth that sounds more like a post cemetery. I don't think we have any veterans cemeteries overseas. Clark Field and Fort McKinley were side by side in the old days, much like Fort Dix, and McGuire AFB are today.
That whole area where Clark/McKinley were has destroyed by a volcano. What you tell me does not surprise me at all. If it was the Clark post cemetery it would not be under ABMC.
I can take you to one such in western Kansas, that is nothing more than a field of sagebrush and rattlesnakes with a few stones scattered about.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679 
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Post by dave on Jun 3, 2017 22:40:13 GMT
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Post by quincannon on Jun 3, 2017 23:51:07 GMT
Well first off it is Fort Stotsenberg and Clark that were side by side. McKinley is near Manila is still in use as the headquarters of the Philippine Army.
Is Clark veterans cemetery on old Clark AFB or does it just share the name. From that picture in the link it appears to be much larger than what one of the old post cemeteries would be.
Our diplomatic relations with the Philippines have always been a bit iffy. They don't like us, but love our money.
Don't you worry though. The more that trouble heats up down south the sooner they will learn to love their Uncle again. |
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Post by yanmacca on Jun 4, 2017 9:26:30 GMT
Our diplomatic relations with the Philippines have always been a bit iffy. They don't like us, but love our money.
I know exactly what you mean Chuck, there has always been a host of countries who expect a hand out from the British and resent us at the same time. |
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Post by quincannon on Jun 4, 2017 14:17:52 GMT
We probably should move this conversation to WWII, unless Deep Ravine is in the Philippines BUT.
It is not hand outs so much, foreign aid is an instrument of diplomacy as such a completely different topic.
We maintained bases in the Philippines when they were our colony, and continued to maintain them until the mid 1990's. These bases were economic engines for the Philippine economy. In many ways there is a love-hate thing going on. They hated us being there, but loved the money that stimulated their economy, then hated us again for leaving.
Had we been smart, Dewey should have gone into Manila Bay in 98, sunk the Spanish fleet, turned around and moved away, and left that rat hole to the Spanish. Having to defend the Philippines caused us a great deal of needless heartburn in WWII. The place cannot be defended. Us not owning the Philippines at the time would have completely upset the Japanese strategic apple cart.
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on Jun 26, 2017 21:31:11 GMT
Beth that sounds more like a post cemetery. I don't think we have any veterans cemeteries overseas. Clark Field and Fort McKinley were side by side in the old days, much like Fort Dix, and McGuire AFB are today. That whole area where Clark/McKinley were has destroyed by a volcano. What you tell me does not surprise me at all. If it was the Clark post cemetery it would not be under ABMC. I can take you to one such in western Kansas, that is nothing more than a field of sagebrush and rattlesnakes with a few stones scattered about. Quincannon, Fort Dix, and McGuire AFB combined and became what I believe they call a mega-base. From what I understood at the time, before I left, that the Air Force would have over all command. Be Well Dan |
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Post by quincannon on Jun 26, 2017 21:48:28 GMT
They are called joint bases today.
For instance Joint Base Pearl Harbor Hickam, Joint Base Lewis McCord, Joint Base San Antonio. They combine all the administrative functions of two or more bases under one base commander. Saves a ton of money, and they do not have to be side by side like Dix and McGuire.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 27, 2017 14:03:36 GMT
Or Pope/Bragg.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 27, 2017 14:08:49 GMT
Joint force operations are going to be the current and future way, integrated, if you will.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 27, 2017 14:10:01 GMT
Contractors will continue to play a larger role as well.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 27, 2017 14:35:55 GMT
It just makes good sense from a financial point of view, as do contractors for some of the functions, such as almost anything on a base that is non-deployable.
We have very little left overseas anymore, at least little compared to what we had 1945-1990. Our bases have all become power projection platforms. Anywhere that you an have a civilian contractor replace uniformed personnel for administrative-base running functions is generally something that we should strive for. You only have to pay these people during the duration of the contract. The financial burden of things like retirement, health insurance, Social Security, and other such payouts fall on the contractor, not the government. It is much cheaper therefore to hire a food service contractor for instance, than to hire a military cook who stays for twenty years and retires, than lives until he is ninety.
The one area that I am totally against though is in base/post security forces. For awhile our local bases here, Petersen AFB and Fort Carson, had civilian contract security. They have now all been replaced by Air Force Security and Military Police, who are very well armed.
The trend toward jointness will continue, and it will not be very long until you see corps level (3 star) headquarters disappear as single service centric entities, and take on new names/titles and be tailored for world wide all service missions. It is in fact happening today, they just have not changed the cosmetics. I think the viable model is Special Operations Command, and the area commands like the one we have just down the road, Northern Command, which covers the Continental United States. I would feel a bit better about that one though if they would move U.S, Army North (formerly 5th Army) to Colorado, from San Antonio. That would free up a lot of room on Fort Sam Houston for Southern Command, which includes U.S. Army South (formerly 6th Army).
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