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Post by quincannon on May 5, 2017 2:04:25 GMT
Look, I have no liking for him, but there are limits that constrain a decent human being on going after anyone just because they do not like him.
He is my President, and I will support him 100 percent when I can. The "can" will be determined by an examination of conscience, as to the Constitutionality, and morality of the issue in terms of right and wrong, not in terms of left or right.
The Constitutional process has taken place and he will be the president for the next three years and nine months, unless he runs afoul of the impeachment process, buy an act of his own hand, or Section 4 of the 25th Amendment which can remove him from office for incompetence. Read the 25th very carefully.
Where every citizen, of whatever stripe or party, whatever philosophical bent, has a duty to do though is speak out when demonstrated incompetence on the part of either role, be it Chief Executive, or Commander in Chief, has or will cause the lives of Americans, indeed any lives, to be put needlessly at risk. His remarks validating the leader of an outlaw nation, is one such occasion, and every American should be appalled at that level of gross incompetence on the part of the President of the United States
The problem is though that most Americans are so grossly misinformed about nearly all things, that the matter will pass over their heads without notice, or they will not see the severity of the blunder he committed.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on May 5, 2017 2:19:46 GMT
I am hoping his ego gets in the way and he resigns out of frustration with government processes, checks and balances, etc. Highly unlikely but as childish as he is, not impossible.
The United States of America is not his fiefdom and US citizens do not exist in order to fund his golf game. I will get off my soapbox now. Respect the office, not necessarily the individual currently holding that office.
Best,
David
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Post by quincannon on May 5, 2017 2:33:37 GMT
Let's get back to modern naval warfare. These things are worth talking about only if such discussions can bear fruit. The Constitution does not say that the person who holds the office must be respected, but it does say the office itself must be respected.
It is much more productive though in this thread to point out that fear, be it generated from afar, or by our own, such as the mavens of cable TV, who piss their pants at the crisis du jour, instead of preparing the nation to face it headlong without fear, is the enemy of us all. There are people though, thank God, who remember the words of Kipling, and council us to keep our heads no matter what besets us.
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Post by quincannon on May 5, 2017 16:08:27 GMT
Benteen. The Navy Museum is located in Building 76 at the Washington Navy Yard and fronts on the Anacostia River.
It was in that building, then a gun shop that my dad apprenticed, and my grandfather worked as a journeyman machinist. Both worked on large 14" and 16" naval rifles, that were then put aboard barges and towed down the Potomac River to Dahlgren to be tested before they were either installed or put in reserve for future use.
If you ever visit there, the museum collection includes a five inch 38 caliber twin mount, originally from USS Reno, that my dad transferred from storage to the museum, that being his last official act before he retired from Naval Sea Systems Command.
The museum also contains in its collection at least a hundred U S Navy ship commissioning booklets which I donated to them before I moved to Colorado. Included in the collection were booklets from the commissioning of Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger, Enterprise, Kitty Hawk, and Constellation as well as from the re-commission of both Boston and Canberra.
I still have my ship photo collection which is a little over a thousand, but someday that too will go to the museum.
Anyone who has not visited the U S Navy Museum should make it a must see while in DC, and the Naval Academy Museum is also a required stop for anyone even remotely interested in naval affairs. In that place do not miss the top floor which has the best collection of sailing ship builder's models on the planet.
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Post by quincannon on May 5, 2017 16:33:24 GMT
Dave: You might want to check out USNI News for several good articles on the LCS and its production replacement the new generation frigate.
The big slam against the LCS is actually twofold lethality and survivability. Lethality will be increased over time with add on systems. That leaves survivability, and the issue is complicated in that while you cut put add on packages on existing vessels and do the same to those under construction, so doing will decrease the speed which is also a survivability issue. So there is no easy solution.
There must be a high end, a Burke costs 1.5 Billion each, and a low end (read relatively inexpensive) tandem. The lower end you go the less you can put on the vessel. So at some point there must be a acknowledgement of the fact that your low end ship, is not going to be as capable as the high end, so you must do what you can do and at the same time take your chances.
Same thing with the tank and the rifleman. The tank is lethal and for the most part survivable. The rifleman less so, but you still need the rifleman, to do only what he can do, and the best of all worlds is that they operate in conjunction with one another.
In the short term (present to 2030) you will see the Navy retire the cruiser type altogether and not replace it, and from that point on the surface combatant force will consist of Flight IIA and Flight III Burkes and the LCS/Frigate. There will also be a reduction in the numbers of the destroyers in the fleet starting about 2025 when the Flight I and Flight IA Burkes are retired having reached the end of their useful lives. As the Flight III's start to come on line about 2024, they will replace the early Burke's probably on a one for two basis.
In 2030 it is expected that the new generation destroyer will start coming on line to replace the Flight IIA Burkes. I would not expect that to be trouble free, as it will incorporate laser systems and a whole lot of whiz bang stuff that unforeseen problems can be expected from.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on May 5, 2017 18:58:23 GMT
Come a long way from 5-8" guns.
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Post by quincannon on May 5, 2017 21:02:36 GMT
Yes, I guess we have although guns on USN ships are now expressed in millimeters.
I did a little digging prompted by Dave's interest in the LCS program, and as I mentioned the follow up ships will once again revert to the traditional name frigate.
What I found were three versions of the Lockheed Martin design that has been set out as a proposal. They are in fact expanded versions of the Freedoms that L-M is presently producing in Wisconsin. The largest one is equipped with Aegis, and VLS, which will make it very expensive, but it will still have the shortfalls apparently caused by the requirement for the shallow draft and high speed.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on May 6, 2017 10:47:48 GMT
I am hoping his ego gets in the way and he resigns out of frustration with government processes, checks and balances, etc. Highly unlikely but as childish as he is, not impossible. Checks and balances, just cleaning up the last clowns mess, that will take a while if it can ever be done.The United States of America is not his fiefdom and US citizens do not exist in order to fund his golf game. I will get off my soapbox now. Respect the office, not necessarily the individual currently holding that office. Golf, you have to be kidding, he has a long way to go to catch up with the last duffer. We all agree, respect the office. At least this one was not caught on a live mike telling Putin's flunky to "tell Vladimir to wait until after the elections." And I might believe this guy about red lines! Best, David Do we really need to add all of this to "Naval Warfare in the Modern age."
Regards, Tom
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on May 6, 2017 12:01:56 GMT
Obviously not and Obama was not much better with outcomes. Evrry President gets left with their predecessors messes.
Now back to Naval warfare.
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Post by quincannon on May 19, 2017 19:51:45 GMT
Dave: Reference our Phonecon of a few days ago.
If you look on Navsource under LCS 16 USS Tulsa you will see a series of pictures of Tulsa being moved up the Mobile River to be launched at the BAE Systems yard where they have a dry dock, then back down the river to Austal for fitting out.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on May 19, 2017 21:14:10 GMT
QC I went to look at the shipyard facilities in Mobile, AL listed on NavSource. I have seen the shipyard before but thought it to be loading docks. Next time I am down that way I will pay closer attention as they are just a little away from the USS Alabama and USS Drum which I always visit.
I must say that a LCS is something only a mother could love. They are unusual looking and do not have the trim lines of the Fletchers though they are about the same size. The LCS only have a complement of 28! Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on May 19, 2017 21:30:23 GMT
Not only a crew of 28, but each of them have two crews of 28, very much like we operate the SSBN's with a Blue and Gold crew. The effect of course is to be more operations out of the same platform.
Those pictures of Tulsa is the only time I have seen four LCS's at the same place and time. I think they are Tulsa, Giffords, Montgomery and Manchester.
I felt the same way when I first saw the design, preferring the Freedoms over the Independence Class, but a time goes on that design is sort of growing on me.
The new frigate proposals are just modification of those two designs, but the selection of which frigate to build will supposedly only be one design. I think that a potential mistake from this viewpoint. We are going to need those frigates faster than two or three per year. Each yard Austal, and the one in Wisconsin can produce that many each, but the kicker is that those yards are so specialized that I would love to know if both could produce either of the designs without any great delay.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on May 19, 2017 21:57:10 GMT
I recently read an article about how the USS Bunker Hill (CG-52) is to be retired in 2019, the first of the Ticonderogas to be retired. What will we replace the Ticos with that can protect the carriers? Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on May 19, 2017 22:35:51 GMT
Bunker Hill will mot be the first Tico. CG47 to CG51 were previously retired about ten years ago, primarily in that they mounted the two arm launchers instead of the Vertical Launch System (VLS), which mirrors what we have on all the CG's and DDG's.
The answer is that nothing will replace the Tico's. The cruiser category will drop from the force completely. Both the Tico's and Burke's have Aegis. When the Tico's were built you needed a larger hull than the Burke to accommodate the sensor suite. Today with space based systems that is no longer a requirement and a Burke is every bit as capable, and some sources say more so than a Tico.
That is another thing that those that detract the LCS never seem to take into consideration. We live in an age of sensors and with space based systems these LCS platforms are actually more capable than they appear, jus looking at them.
Problem is that when you put a full Aegis suite on a ship you increase the cost exponentially, and the LCS is supposed to be a low cost combatant. As long as the Burke and the LCS are interconnected by space based systems then the LCS guy can see everything the Burke guy can.
The revolution in electronics is not nearly as fully appreciated by the public as it should be, but take what I am using right now to write this. If you know something in Mississippi and Beth knows something in Texas, and Ian in the UK, Mac in Oz, and Tom in Virginia, then I have that ability to know these things in seconds, with graphics and real time photography, which enables me to address that part of the problem that may effect me directly.
When you think about it, it becomes mind boggling.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jun 7, 2017 21:48:53 GMT
What replaced the Tarawa Class like the Belleau Wood(LHA3)? What is the difference between the LHA and LHD? Talk about better?
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