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Post by yanmacca on Apr 9, 2017 13:26:41 GMT
Funny enough I am attempting to down load that film, the file I have found only has one seeder so it may take some time.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 9, 2017 13:36:02 GMT
There was a plan in motion about the same time as the Doolittle raid to launch about a squadrons worth of B17's from China. Robert L Scott, who later commanded the 23rd Fighter Group, the remnants of the AVG, was one of the pilots, and the story is documented in "God Is My Co-Pilot". They got as far as India when the mission was canceled. The intention was to launch from China, refuel in the Philippines, and hit Japan, returning to a different location in China from where they launched. The mission was scrubbed due to loss of the refueling airfields in the Philippines.
The first B29 raids on Japan were launched from China. It was a short lived effort, because of the impossibility of supplying these aircraft in the quantity that was necessary for a strategic bombing of Japan to achieve the desired results. They had to be supplied over the Hump, and the amount of supplies that were necessary was an impossible goal to meet. The Marianas was the logical and adopted solution. The B29 and the Marianas are inextricably joined at the hip, and the B29 was the reason for the Central Pacific Campaign of 1944, particularly the Battle of the Philippine Sea. Hornfischer's latest book "The Fleet at High Tide" is the best source I know of for detailed information on this. He follows both the B29 and the cooperative effort of the U S Fleet from 44 into 1945, ending with the dropping of the A-Bomb.
Dieppe was totally justified. The lessons learned there were invaluable at Normandy. Like most "new" things you learn from your mistakes. Crete was hubris rampant. They did win though. I don't know enough about the Soviet operation to comment, other than to say when did the Soviets ever give a shit enough to care.
Putting men's lives in recklessly conceived danger for no worthwhile and achievable goal ranges from stupid to criminal. When one talks of morale raising, one should first consider the morale of the men they caused to be lost.
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 9, 2017 13:48:24 GMT
Chuck, I hope you haven't read me wrong and think that I support these flag waving battles, far from it my friend, but these decisions are made by the top brass in conjunction with politicians and this is a ruthless combination. Just read about how the top brass let convoys to be attacked so that the Germans didn't catch on to the allies breaking their codes.
I agree with you over the lessons learned at Dieppe, and that's why the British and Canadians had a host of specialized vehicles to overcome the problems faced at Dieppe, but I am sure the American army declined such vehicles on D Day, well except for the DD tanks.
I have got 30 seconds over Tokyo, plus Destination Tokyo, and Crash Dive, oh I threw Northwest Passage in for good measure so I will transfer these to a USB stick for later enjoyment.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 9, 2017 14:05:34 GMT
No I don't think that.
Anything that can be justified by results is perfectly OK by me. You can regret the loss of life, but lives are lost in war. There must be purpose though. Coventry is a good example, as are those convoys you mentioned. You justify the loss, by the greater saving of lives down the road. That said there are a number of occasions where both the Germans and Japanese were asleep at the switch regarding the compromise of their codes. Midway was one of them, where I feel no other conclusion could be drawn that the IJN operational codes had been compromised. There were several times at Guadalcanal and in the Solomons as well, whacking Yamamoto for instance. Broken codes were the inescapable conclusions, if they had been looking as hard as they should have. Problem in the Pacific is that with such great distances you have no other choice but to use radio transmission, and what can be transmitted can be broken. Make no mistake, the war for us was won just as much in Boston (M.I.T.), Baltimore (Johns Hopkins), and Palo Alto (Stanford) as it was at Midway, Guadalcanal, and Okinawa.
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 9, 2017 14:40:52 GMT
I must admit the choice of bomber chosen for the Doolittle Raid was spot on, the B-25 was one of the best medium bombers of its kind with a max range of 1300, the ones used in the raid had there range increased to 2.400 because of extra fuel tanks built into the aircraft.
Apparently to save weight they removed some of the defensive armament and replaced it with broom sticks painted black to resemble machine guns, this kept down the weight but left some with only two .50 cals for defence. They also lost a radio set. With all these alterations the aircraft managed to carry four 500 pound bombs.
Side bar: Five of the surviving crew men later became generals.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 9, 2017 14:57:52 GMT
Actually the only positive lasting result I can see from this is that the Navy learned that with some modifications to both carrier and aircraft, heavier twin engine aircraft could be successfully deployed from a carrier. Shortly after the war North American produced the AJ1 Savage, that was based upon the B25 design for intended deployment on the USS United States. The purpose was carrying a nuclear weapon. There was later another based upon the B66, then again another the Vigilante.
The B25 was a very useful aircraft, but when you think about it in January 1942 when the raid was planned there were only two real choices the B25 and the A20 which we called the Havoc, and the RAF called the Boston. Which, going back to the subject of unsung aircraft on the other thread, the Havoc was another that garnered little attention but certainly earned its keep. Always liked the Havoc better than its sister Invader or the Mitchell.
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 9, 2017 15:10:05 GMT
The Lockheed Ventura was another solid aircraft which was used by the RAF, I think the USN used them as lead aircraft equipped with radar and these were used in conjunction with B-25 squadrons.
Maybe this should be in the aircraft thread.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Apr 16, 2017 13:57:21 GMT
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