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ME262
Apr 5, 2017 14:59:27 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 5, 2017 14:59:27 GMT
Been a long time since I initiated a thread and I've been fascinated with the development of the first operational jet fighter, the ME262. I know the Brits developed a contemporary , the Gloster Meteor and the USA had the P59 Airacomet and P80 Shooting Star in the works. The Meteor was actually quite a bit faster than the 262. Open for discussion! m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjyIo8uRBDI
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Post by yanmacca on Apr 5, 2017 15:26:03 GMT
Yes David, I agree the ME 262 does hold some fascination to me also, but it was not the first German jet aircraft, have a look at this bird, it flew the last German mission over Britain in 1945; linkAnd don't forget this death trap, it also flew a few missions too as an interceptor; linkHere is an American view concerning German jets; link
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ME262
Apr 5, 2017 16:01:16 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 5, 2017 16:01:16 GMT
What I find interesting is the last link where the article beats up Der Fuehrer as hindering the development of the 262 by insisting on the Sturmvogel fighter/bomber version. I have read articles that have stated that Hitler's hindrances were minimal. I think the overall effectiveness of the 262 (potentially) was in the desired 5:1 kill ratio. Most 262's were destroyed on the ground or during take off/landing procedures; a testament to how difficult the aircraft was to destroy once fully deployed and airborne. www.thehistoryreader.com/modern-history/little-late-hitler-introduction-messerschmitt-262/
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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ME262
Apr 5, 2017 18:42:33 GMT
Post by benteen on Apr 5, 2017 18:42:33 GMT
Gentlemen,
Dont forget about Japan. They had an array of Jet Fighters. One designed after the ME262, and another that was droped out of a bomber and could reach speeds of 600 MPH.
Be Well Dan
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ME262
Apr 5, 2017 19:53:04 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 5, 2017 19:53:04 GMT
Gentlemen, Dont forget about Japan. They had an array of Jet Fighters. One designed after the ME262, and another that was droped out of a bomber and could reach speeds of 600 MPH. Be Well Dan I believe you are refering to the Oka or Baka. Those were rocket powered as was the ME163. I think parts for the ME262 reached Japan by submarine toward the end of the war. Best, David
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benteen
First Lieutenant
"Once An Eagle
Posts: 406
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Post by benteen on Apr 5, 2017 20:09:09 GMT
David,
Yes, but I cheated and went on the internet. I dont know how to put up links, but I typed in Jet fighters of Japan WW2 and I was amazed at how many they were experimenting with. These were jet powered not rocket powered. Good thing the war ended when it did.
Be Well Dan
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ME262
Apr 5, 2017 23:28:04 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 5, 2017 23:28:04 GMT
True dat, Dan. Especially a good thing that Japan's war material wound up at the bottom of the Pacific!
Best,
David
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Apr 5, 2017 23:33:15 GMT
As best as I can remember a couple of German U Boats were sunk enroute to Japan during the War and another surrendered to the Allies after Germany's surrender. Regards Dave
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ME262
Apr 5, 2017 23:33:31 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 5, 2017 23:33:31 GMT
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Post by quincannon on Apr 5, 2017 23:35:43 GMT
As it turned out it was very fortunate that the Germans achieved operational status with the 262.
In the time of shrinking budgets following WWII, without the 262 becoming operational I doubt we would have devoted the funds and focus we did in producing a top of the line (at the time) fighter like the F86E in time for Korea. Nothing else we had, F80, F84, or F9F5 would match the MIG 15
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ME262
Apr 6, 2017 2:18:48 GMT
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dave likes this
Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 6, 2017 2:18:48 GMT
Weren't the Germans the first to utilize the swept wing design? Looking at photos of other jets from multiple countries, contemporary jet fighters had straight wings.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 6, 2017 4:01:22 GMT
They were.
The original design for the F86 was a straight wing aircraft. The Navy bought some designated the FJ1 Fury, but I think the Air Force passed in favor of a modified swept wing design based on German research. The later models of the F84 had swept wings, as did the F9F6 and F9F8. The former was a F9F5 Panther with the swept wings added and the Panther became the Cougar. The Dash 8 model had swept wings but the also made major air frame modifications as well
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ME262
Apr 6, 2017 4:53:07 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 6, 2017 4:53:07 GMT
Understood. If I remember as well the main delay in the 262's development was designing and building reliable jet engines. Tough to do in the Jet Age's infancy. Orriginal prototype was prop driven and use the tail dragging landing gear.
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ME262
Apr 6, 2017 11:32:57 GMT
Post by yanmacca on Apr 6, 2017 11:32:57 GMT
David, the engines used [Jumo 004] required major overhauls after 30-50 hours in service and even less in some cases. According to some of the fly-guys I know from other sites, approximately 200-300 were ever actually in operation, but digging around I found this production number for ME 262s. Between June and December 1944 a total of 513 were built. June: 28 July: 59 August: 20 September: 91 October: 117 November: 315 December: 198 Between January and April 1945: 865 were built. Total: 1.378
They were used as fighters and even fighter bombers but by early 1945 the Me 262's job was to bring down allied bombers.
Many were shot down by allied fighters and the trick was to attack the 262 during take-off or landing, but the Germans soon realised this and placed extra anti-aircraft guns around the airfields used by the ME 262, apparently so many Hawker Tempests were lost due to the heavier flak that they gave up trying to destroy the 262s around their airfields. From searching around I have found that a total of around 125 ME 262s were shot down.
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ME262
Apr 6, 2017 12:34:23 GMT
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on Apr 6, 2017 12:34:23 GMT
Good one Ian. The Germans also utilized FW TA-152s (derived from the FW-190) to protect 262s during take off and landing. A further impediment was that 262s required concrete runways and were thus easy to spot from the air. Deadly aircraft with an achilles heel!
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