dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 17, 2017 0:16:48 GMT
Rockwell I have heard of as well as a more modern day hater David Duke and Louis Farrakan. Hatred of a group of people based solely on race, nationality or religion is wrong and anti Christian but it still persists. When I worked for the University we attended diversity meetings to learn about the needs, concerns and wants of minority students and that Blacks can not be racists since they as a group do not have the political power to deny others their rights.
Needless to say I was not the star student of the meetings as I fully believe being a racists is based on an individual basis. Each person must make the conscious decision to accept or reject a race just as we do when deciding as to whether we like an individual. Racism is an attitude and behavior not political power.
The South, especially the Deep South, has paid for its past actions from 1861 to today and continue to be judged by a false stereotype which does not seem to be changed any time soon. Integration is a living breathing thing in the South where we as people get along better than many parts of the country. Being judge by hypocrites who often have never been south of the Mason Dixon Line is a age old problem for us but we prevail and will continue to grow as a people, a state and a nation. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Feb 17, 2017 0:54:38 GMT
What about hatred or discrimination based upon sexual orientation? Is that OK? Is that anti-Christian? No law has been violated, and we are governed by secular law. Your religion may tell you that it is wrong. That is perfectly OK. It may not. I flat guarantee you though that people are discriminated against and hated by those citing God as a reason for the hate and discrimination. God's law is not practiced before the bar of the Supreme Court of the United States except when God's law is consistent with the law of the United States
So add to your list of being Anti-Christian along with race, nationality, and religion, discrimination against sexual orientation, condemnation for abortion, nose picking, spitting your snuff in a cup, peeing upside a tree in the piney woods, and farting in church.
Hatred concurrent with discrimination for any reason under the sun is against the Laws of the United States as set forth in the Constitution of the United States and enabling legislation, and it also happens to be Anti-Christian, as well.
I find it so ironic that Jesus Christ Himself set forth the rule for governance in these matters with Render unto Caesar - Render unto God. I suspect most do not understand the full scope of that statement. Understand it or not that is the only manner in which a republican democracy can exist, giving equal legal protection to all its citizens, while still making a guarantee of religious freedom. So were I president, I would be more than willing to throw gays and lesbians under the bus, as long as others would be willing to surrender their religious freedom as a quid pro quo. Do you think I would get any takers?
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Feb 17, 2017 1:20:01 GMT
Jesus, guys, the most recent racist, BS regarding schools, post 1950's/1960's took place in Boston. It is not sectional. It is Political correctness that continues to hinder us from moving forward, in discussions nothing should be off the table and should be straight forward. Brexit and our election are proof positive of a dislike of political correctness, of many working class people being left out of the equation, flyover country, and voters taken for granted. Now as Beth would say lets drop it.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Feb 17, 2017 1:23:36 GMT
This should be a discussion of the ACW, history, and the good that has come in the wake of it, slow as it may be.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 17, 2017 2:02:55 GMT
Deadwod I bow my head and agree you are right. I obey the laws of the land regardless of my personal beliefs as Jesus said. QC what is the deal with the Blue Horse with Red Eyes at the Denver Airport? Regards Dave
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Feb 17, 2017 2:08:28 GMT
You were supposed to ask him if he was related to the animal!
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 17, 2017 2:20:55 GMT
Oh yea yea! Do you think he will figure out that once again you have lead me astray? Regards Dave
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Feb 17, 2017 2:29:38 GMT
Nah!
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Post by quincannon on Feb 17, 2017 2:53:43 GMT
I have not been to the Denver Airport in 20 years so I don't know what horse you refer to.
I have been to the Colorado Springs Airport many times including last week, and we have a statue of a mounted Cheyenne Warrior hunting a buffalo, in tribute to those who inhabited this place before us. We do not advocate Indian pillage by having that statue there. It is merely a tribute to heritage.
Now you go to the airport nearest you Dave, look up at the flagpole, then tell me what kind of message that flag sends, in respect to striving for a 21st Century Mississippi. Seems a trifle counterproductive to me. To more than fifty percent of your State that flag is representative of a place and time they would just as soon not again visit. Christ even Georgia and South Carolina got rid of their Confederate symbols. In the case of the latter it only took nine people murdered in a church to get them off their ass. What are you waiting for? You are better than that
And in many ways Tom we are still fighting that civil war, and it will continue to be fought until all these things are rectified. What do you think Lee would say if he came back today? Personally I think he would be very disappointed that all this is not behind us.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Feb 17, 2017 4:04:42 GMT
Democracy is the form of government we have and it is by the consensus of the people that we establish laws, rules, regulations and symbols. The current flag of the state of the Mississippi was voted on a special election in 2001 and was supported by 64% of the voters so it is constitutionally flown.
There are several cities and at least 2 state universities that do not fly the Mississippi State Flag but just the National Flag. There are been discussions at the state level of changing flags but as of now there is no general ground swell to replace the flag. As you know the current debate of Heritage not Hate is seen by some as political correctness and others as a tacit support of racism.
Several cities---New Orleans and Memphis that I know about---have attempted to remove statues and parks named after Confederate leaders and soldiers but have failed to state laws. The ubiquitous Confederate Soldier statue in so many towns and cities in the South has not been an issue yet but it will. If we remove all traces of our history, good or bad, then we have very little left of ourselves. I would point out that slavery was established under the US Flag and existed after the Confederacy was defeated and disbanded. The 13th Amendment was not passed till December of 1865. So it begs the question are the Stars and Stripes a racist symbol? Of course not but America did allow, support and legalize slavery before and after the Confederacy.
This issue will be better handled by my children's generation and then by my grandchildren's. The passions that exist which still run high will be cooler then and calmer heads will rule. I detest any action which would deny or interfere with anyone's civil rights yet I do not support pretending the Confederacy did not exist and we as a people will make everyone feel good because we won't remember or celebrate differences and the bad memories. A great many of us had relatives who fought in the War on either side and they are ancestors good or bad. We can not put all aspects of the ACW in National Parks and keep them all within the confines of the park. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Feb 17, 2017 5:36:00 GMT
I do not support or condone not honoring the history of a State or Region, taking down monuments, renaming parks or anything akin to it. It is part of who we are collectively, and in my view such actions are not proper. The most prominent Confederate monument I know of is in Alexandria, Virginia, facing directly across the Potomac at the Capitol of the United States. It is just where it should be honoring the sons of that city who fought for what they believed in. They believed in treason, but they were fine and honorable men, and it was a different time with different values.
Your flag was adopted in the late 1890's and the adoption withdrawn five or six years later. For nearly a century your state went without a flag, until the same flag was readopted early in this century. The information I have says it was readopted by legislative act, so I do not know where the sixty four percent comes in. A state legislature can sanctify a ham sandwich. Such is the spineless nature of legislatures.
The point here is that this is the twenty first century. One would think that if a state wished to move into that century, develop its citizenry, attract business, grow its economy, attain high education standards, make its colleges,and hospitals centers of research, and fight poverty and disease, then that legislature could find a far better symbolic way to forge a future while honoring its past. Virginia is doing fine, North Carolina is going and growing like gangbusters. Other states in the deep south have left Mississippi in their dust.
I am sure most of it is perception, but to the guy who wants to spend dollars in your state, or build a plant, or start a business perception is reality, and the perception of Mississippi is not at all good. That is Mississippi's fault, not the federal government, not the paragons of the political correct. It belongs squarely with you.
Were it me I would start by hauling down the symbol of treason that flies over your state capitol, make it plain to one and all within your state, that today is a new day, and if anyone tries to deny any human being the full rights, and protections guaranteed them under both the federal and state constitutions then they can kiss their ass goodbye.
What would be the ramifications if one fine day the president of the United States by executive order refuses to send one dollar to support your state, in any manner until that treasonous rag comes down, and far reaching reforms instituted. It is within his power to do so. Congress authorizes, but it is the purview of the executive to spend. Think about it .
And Tom, for the record I despise political correctness for its own sake just as much as I know both you and Dave both do. I try to stay away from that stuff as much as possible, but it has nothing to do with being politically correct when the subject matter turns to issues such as these. They need to be discussed in an open forum between reasonable people. Dave wants these things discussed here corrected and a new path taken as much as I do. He is not as direct in his approach as I am in my bull in a china shop methods. Have no doubt though that good men may find different paths to the same objective, but the objectives remain the same.
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 17, 2017 12:26:37 GMT
My dad told me on the first day I tended bar in his pub, that you don't start conversations about Politics, Religion and sport because it always end up in an argument, very true and wise words from my auld fella.
So if I ever saw these topics getting raised I would try and nip things in the bud, some times taking some abuse in the proceeds, but I always give as good as I got, if it got too heated I could always order them out of the pub and bar them, no wonder I was known as I an the Bar-steward [Ian the B*****d].
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Feb 17, 2017 12:40:16 GMT
Chuck,Dave Chuck,you are so right regarding Lee and today. Many things would trouble him, foremost being the rancor that still exists over the war that ended 152 years ago. Lee really never saw the KKK in action, nor the Jim Crow Laws, he was a man of his time and as I understand it Grant had slave/servant after Lee. I am going to post two links here. The 1st being contained in a letter from Lee to a speech given by then President Pierce. The 2nd as information only regarding Lee's funeral wishes. We have grown as a nation and we still have much more growing to do. I hope you enjoy the attached. civilwarhome.com/leepierce.htmwww.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/even-robert-e-lee-wanted-the-confederate-flag-gone.htmlRegards, Tom
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Post by dgfred on Feb 17, 2017 16:15:24 GMT
Worst Generals?
Not worst Generals?
How did we go so far astray?
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Post by yanmacca on Feb 17, 2017 16:18:19 GMT
It happens Greg.
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