Civil War Interest?

[deadwoodgultch]

I have no issue with pride in one's state, I do have an issue with the flag predominance you suggest.

[yanmacca]

Thanks Beth that battle flag as referred to by Chuck has a name, The Stainless Banner by the looks of it, I think.

Texas reminds me of Yorkshire, now I don’t want to offend any Texicans out there but just look at the nick names, The Lone Star State (Texas) Gods Own County (Yorkshire), you can see how they stand proud and aloof with names like that, another thing too is that Texas is the largest state inside the borders of mainland America as Alaska is separated by Canada, Yorkshire is also the largest county in England, so there are similarities, I don’t know if Texas folk differ from people in other states but Yorkshire people (or tykes as we call them), have a tendency to be no nonsense folk and lack a sense of humour, some say they are pretty dour. 

I was born in Lancashire but due to boundary changes reside in Cheshire, but there is a fierce rivalry between the red rose of Lancashire and the white rose of Yorkshire ever since we beat them in the war of the roses, funny enough if Lancashire ever play Yorkshire in any sporting events like Cricket, then it is called a roses match and believe me in such games they take no prisoners.

[quincannon]

Tom: I have more than an issue with it. To me such conduct is reprehensible.

Now WHIFF the largely Hispanic population of one of those small Texas border towns along the Rio Bravo del Norte decided that they should fly the Mexican Flag in a position superior to the flag of the United States. In such an event the same people who are flying the Confederate Flag superior to that of The United States would be the first to be outraged and cries of treason would be heard throughout the land.

Same thing if the Mayor of Charleston, South Carolina, or Raleigh, North Carolina decided that the Union Jack was the flag for them.

The principle is the same.

"One Nation Under God With Liberty And Justice For All" is easier in the saying than in the doing, and if we ever wish to come close to this ideal, some had better learn to pull up their big boy pants, or f**king leave.

Honoring the past is a noble thing to do. Sectional rivalry is healthy, unless it gets out of hand. But when honoring becomes trying to relive, and friendly rivalry becomes divisive, it hurts everyone, but moreover it hurts the United States, which has yet to conclusively prove that free men can govern themselves. My hope is that it is never proven. My hope is that we continue to try.

Republican democracy is and always will be a work in progress

[yanmacca]

Its slight different over here, I don't think you would see many Scots or Welsh flying the Union Jack, their own flag yes, but it is mainly the English who fly the Union Jack, but you do get plenty of flying the Cross of St George and good for them.

We also have a similar thing with anthems, if England plays Wales or Scotland in a sporting event, then they play their own anthem, but the English play "God Save The Queen" which is strange because she if there Queen too. Many think the English should have a separate anthem too, with "Jerusalem" being the favorite, we can then save G-S-T-Q for any events featuring all of the nations in the UK.

I would suggest that if we did adopt Jerusalem, that we used the Emerson, Lake and Palmer version, but it would cause a right stink as it would be similar to Hendrix playing the "Star spangled banner".

[Beth]

Jan 30, 2017 10:54:25 GMT deadwoodgultch said:

I have no issue with pride in one's state, I do have an issue with the flag predominance you suggest.

So do I and I have contacted the church but get ignored.  They tend to leave their church and the state flag at full mask when President has called for half staff as well-something I see routinely but I suspect that most of the time it's just not understanding how to fly a flag especially when you have a number of poles in front of a business or church.

The only time they have done it correctly was when the half staff is for a police officer but I suspect it might be the PD involves makes the correction.  They tend to be the place for funerals when any police officer in the Austin area dies in the line of duty because of the size of the church and that we are very close to the exits on the Interstate and the Mopac.  

I don't begrudge them that because those funerals can be huge and very few places can handle the crowd but when they have these mega-funerals it blocks one of the only two ways the way out of our neighborhood for hours and the other way into and out of the neighborhood is problematic because it has a huge elementary school and city park/pool right at the beginning.

[dave]

Ian
After the War, Mississippi did not have a state flag till 1894 when it adopted the present flag which has the Confederate Battle Flag (CBF) on it.

The turmoil regarding this flag has really been brewing since the States' Rights Democratic Party, aka the Dixiecrats, adopted the Confederate Battle Flag as their unofficial standard in 1948. Things rocked along then with the Centennial of the ACW 1861 to 1865 the flag became more prominent and contentious. The Sons of Confederate Veterans have defended the CBF and promoted its use with the slogan "Heritage not Hate" since the late 60's. 

In the Deep South---Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi and South Carolina---politicians have used the CBF as a political rallying point and caused the deep repugnance of this banner. The 1950's and 1960's the CBF was irrevocably connected with the State Rights, civil rights abuse and Jim Crow Laws.

Now in the era of Political Correctness we have both sides over reacting and using the flag for their own gain. The South has suffered long and heavy for its sins and attempt to secede from the Union BUT it is our history, American History and must be remembered. Over 700,000 men, and a few women, died during this conflict and no amount of wishing will make it go away. We as a people must remember and honor the sacrifices made by both sides.

I have one caveat to add to this discussion and that is slavery was legal under the American Flag from the ratification of the US Constitution from 1789 to 1865. Slavery at one time was legal in New York, New Jersey and continued to be legal in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri until December 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified.
That being said we need as a people to come together and TALK not yell at each other. So much if what is believed is incorrect with both groups and healing is needed politically as well a individually

That is a brief encapsulated version of my view and thoughts with one more thrown in for good measure. Nothing is so dear to one's heart than the object that might be taken away regardless of what value it has to you prior to the attempt. That is human nature.
Regards
Dave

[yanmacca]

Dave it reminds me of being proud of your town and the town crest, you then take it to the next level with your county (or state in your case) flag, you then above all others fly your nations flag with pride, which England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland do, but seeing that all these countries (well Wales is a principality) are a part of the UK, then they should all be proud to fly the Union Jack.

[yanmacca]

I see that the ACW is being discussed on the PM section, which is not available to others outside the founders, so in an effort to get folks posting their views from the PM to open discussions, I have started to generate interest again in this old thread.

I see that I was the last to post here nearly eleven months ago, so I will kick it off with a link below which covers how they fought.

link

[quincannon]

Very good ACW presentation, but I would direct everyone to the "Formations of the Infantry Squad" (in WWII) which this link gives access to. All one needs to do is to thoroughly understand this presentation, and then take these formations up echelon to see how platoons, companies and battalions moved and deployed from their movement formations. It beats the heck out of all the X's and lines I have ever used to explain these things on this board.

[quincannon]

I have spent the entire morning watching these various videos. All are excellent. Dave would find the one on Pickett's Charge with regards to the panels observations about Meade enlightening as was the discussion on Culp's Hill

Exceptional find Ian, one that can be referred to continually.

[yanmacca]

Thanks Chuck, I must search again for that link to the infantry squad, I missed it during my initial browse.

[dave]

Ian
Great videos! I really enjoyed them and as usual learned quite a bit. I am always struck with how incredibly  strong those men were when standing shoulder to shoulder entering into a maelstrom of shot and shell. 

I hesitated to bring the ACW subject up again in the threads as I seem to drift that way each time the discussion of LBH related materials slows down. I know so little about this battle and and really want to learn more and not just from books but actual experiences of military matters. Ian has this incredible knack of making the maps that are spot on in and makes great sense of mundane contour lines that helps understand the terrain where one has little if any experience. 
Regards
Dave

[yanmacca]

Thanks Dave, my goal has always been to try and get everybody on board and what better way then with visuals.
Words are fine but showing the area in question either through maps, photos or video, makes it a level playing field.
Doing it this way gives everyone a chance of giving their views on what ever topic we are discussing, so if I can can recreate things with visuals then everyone can join in, which is what a board is all about.

Chuck, see if you can add that link to your favorites box or maybe your tool bar.

[dave]

I happened to run across this animated map of the Battle of Chantilly presented by the Civil War Trust. As one our members grew up in this area I thought he might enjoy. Personally I found it to be very informative and easily followed. I also found a site about General Kearny that provided good details about the battle and his death.
Regards
Dave
www.civilwar.org/learn/maps/chantilly-animated-map

dragoon1st.tripod.com/cw/files/kearny_chantilly.html

[yanmacca]

Did Stevens have to attack so early? By the map I can see that he was heavily outnumbered so I don’t if he knew that, but later plenty of support arrived and were impeded by the loss of Stevens formation which left one of the flanks wide open. So did Stevens know that support was coming?

If he knew he was out numbered and he had support arriving soon, then it looks like he sacrificed his command in a pointless attack.

The weather clearly made an impact too and would have slowed everything down plus restricted visibility. The mix of water and gun powder is not good in a battle.