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Post by yanmacca on Dec 1, 2016 14:28:48 GMT
Hi everyone, I have a picture here which was posted on line about seven years ago by a famous west pointer called Clair, it features two routs that was available to Custer and later to Benteen and the pack train, but my question is about the fabled Eshelman fords, now these fords are considered by some to be the place were Custer crossed Reno creek, but do they feature of this photo? And if they do can someone point of their location for me, as I have been trying to find this spot for yonks.
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colt45
First Lieutenant
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Post by colt45 on Dec 1, 2016 19:58:40 GMT
Yan, I would tend to think option B is where Custer crossed, based on the fact he received a couple of messages from Reno, Cooke and Keogh were supposed to have been within viewing distance of ford A, and if he originally intended to cross at ford A behind Reno, option B makes the most sense. I don't see how he could have had timely messages if option A is where he crossed the creek, due to the time on horseback to go from there to ford A and back. Just my opinion. I still tend to think Custer intended to cross at ford A after Reno, but changed his mind due to the reports he got back after Reno crossed and began moving toward the village.
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 1, 2016 20:21:52 GMT
Yes Colt, I have read that Custer's column was only half a mile away from Reno's when the Major crossed the river.
Any guess at the location of Eshelman fords?
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colt45
First Lieutenant
Posts: 440
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Post by colt45 on Dec 1, 2016 20:24:51 GMT
No, I would think Steve would have a good idea where Eshelman is.
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 1, 2016 20:27:37 GMT
Thanks Colt, I am counting on it.
I hope Capt. Conz doesn't mind me using his graphics.
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Post by quincannon on Dec 1, 2016 20:43:21 GMT
I agree with Colt. Option B.
Using option A would be my choice IF I had a complete knowledge of the terrain. Custer did not. Therefore Option B was the only realistic choice.
I not only think Steve would know, I would bet money that he does.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Dec 1, 2016 22:39:14 GMT
Ian, B is your ticket. You have even shown a piece of the campgrounds Steve and I have been staying in. Colt is correct Steve is the go to guy here, has ridden this area. There is a modern bridge near the morass, beyond the bridge towards the LBH river are a myriad crossing spots, if that is what you are asking. Also if you go towards Ford A you, today, can cross the LBH river south of the bypass bridge, for a large swath, but you must dodge the new growth trees.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Dec 1, 2016 22:42:58 GMT
Ian, B is your ticket. You have even shown a piece of the campgrounds Steve and I have been staying in. Colt is correct Steve is the go to guy here, has ridden this area. There is a modern bridge near the morass, beyond the bridge towards the LBH river are a myriad crossing spots, if that is what you are asking. Also if you go towards Ford A you, today, can cross the LBH river south of the bypass bridge, for a large swath, but you must dodge the new growth trees.
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azranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 2, 2016 12:48:44 GMT
I believe the Eshleman fords are named after the family owning the property. If we really want to know I have the go to person to call. I don't think other than naming something for the property owner that there are any problems with crossing Reno Creek almost anywhere. It's not like crossing a significant body of running water.
Where we crossed from the Seven Ranch was based upon permission and not any significant trail. We rode all around whatever Ford A may be and then up to the old road that comes into the back side of the battlefield.
I am friends with Susan Connor and whom I met in 2010. She allowed to go on her property to what some believe Gerard's Knoll is located.
There is some interesting stuff going on right now behind the property of Randy Pretty On Top. It will be coming to television in 2017. Tom will remember are conversation with Randy along the Reno Creek Rd.
Most of the time Reno Creek is dry. In the photo below it is raining and it was raining the day before so two riders had to buy rain gear. The person on the paint horse in the pink poncho is Tori Harper.
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azranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 2, 2016 12:58:41 GMT
One of my problems with Google is sometimes doesn't look like what is in my mind. It seems to increase height and shortens distance horizontally.
I recall have a long discussion with Wild regarding the profile picture I posted of our Benteen ride. He accused me of making it look worse than it is. What I posted was the picture of graph made by the Garmin software. It is what it is and I did not get to chose the y-axis representation. For the x-axis you chose the distance and the software selects the y-axis.
I think that is same thing you are seeing in a Google map. It also changes perspective it you start to tilt the map.
I think Clair was good at making his maps.
Regards
Steve
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azranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 2, 2016 13:16:51 GMT
Tom
I think you are right and option B would be my guess also. I recall more difficulty in looking for Fords to cross the river than any concern for crossing Reno Creek or the NFRC. It's usually dry when we are there and therefore the significance of the morass.
Apparently NFRC had water since Martin states they watered there. We pretty much drive Reno Creek every time we go to the divide.
Regards
Steve
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 2, 2016 13:26:50 GMT
I think Clair had a flair in the map department Steve and has taught me a lot on how to lay stuff out.
Now I know I keep harping on about this but if the Eshelman ford is on the same path as option B then this is the route Custer and Later Benteen took, if it is option A then the same principle applies as Martini said that both Custer and Benteen used the same stretch of Reno creek to water and cross. Some call this area the Eshelman ford and if I can tie this location down to one of the options of Clair's map then bingo, we have the initial route which Custer took over the bluffs and we could use this route to see if he went wide and used the ridges and followed the same path north as the 212 road system.
What's Wild on about, you made it look worse, were you responsible for the rain? I always said that he could start a fight on his own in a phone box.
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azranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 2, 2016 14:17:01 GMT
It was the profile graph that made it look like the Alps.
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azranger
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Post by azranger on Dec 2, 2016 14:30:18 GMT
Ian
There is a two track road that we rode on once you start climbing out of the Reno Creek drainage. Due to NPS lands we had to bypass and we moved toward the river. That turn is just below Benteen's location at the Reno/Benteen battlefield. We came back on the preservation land and moved along the eastern Custer Battlefield fence line all the way to 212.
That land (Preservation Land) in between includes Weir, MTC, MTF, along with many artifact sites for both Indian and cavalry positions.
The Cheyennes still use that route from Reno Creek to come into the preservations lands between Custer Battlefield and Reno/Benteen battlefield. The day I observed them riding along the road from Weir they did not appear to be overly friendly. Regards
Steve
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Post by yanmacca on Dec 2, 2016 16:52:20 GMT
Good god Steve, they must find white strangers as trespassers, which is wrong of course as there should be no areas off limits as you all pay your taxes.
I suppose that you will find some people who are there just to gather any artifacts, which also is wrong.
I also think that B is the right option, as Custer was close enough for both Cook and Keogh to join Reno in a chat before he cross the river at ford A and the data gathered by Cook about what the Indians were doing would have influenced Custer enough to warrant the trek to ford D, too bad he never told Reno.
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