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Post by Beth on Sept 19, 2016 6:10:42 GMT
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 19, 2016 10:35:51 GMT
Wow imagine burying 41.000 dead men in one area, I thought that the 7th had it tough finding and identifying Custer and his command of 209, plus burying them, but 41.000, it doesn't bare thinking about.
But that was the problem with battles fought in that era, mass casualties was common place and this extended to the huge land battle fought during you civil war.
I would not be surprised if the male population dropped during this period of time, in both Europe and the USA, as these huge battles would have culled the number of men.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679 
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Post by dave on Sept 19, 2016 17:00:25 GMT
Beth
Good find! Interesting article. Being that Belgium is a small nation and that both World Wars had battles in this country, how much if any did other battles and fights occur on the Waterloo battlefield?
Regards
Dave
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Post by Beth on Sept 19, 2016 22:50:49 GMT
Belgium has been contested grounds for a long time-and the whole battle was actually a series of actions that covered a much larger area than just around it's namesake. I have always found it interesting that the Prussians actually used a Roman Road to move at one point. It wouldn't surprise me if it was used in WWI or WWII as well. Imagine the history that road as seen. Brussels at War Belgium tours associated with battles |
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Sept 20, 2016 9:54:41 GMT
Belgium has been contested grounds for a long time-and the whole battle was actually a series of actions that covered a much larger area than just around it's namesake. I have always found it interesting that the Prussians actually used a Roman Road to move at one point. It wouldn't surprise me if it was used in WWI or WWII as well. Imagine the history that road as seen. Brussels at War Belgium tours associated with battles Patton visited a Roman site in 1944, much reverence, he wondered how many times this ground had been fought over.
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 20, 2016 10:12:50 GMT
The Romans were great architects and really good built roads, many are still in use in Britain, but obviously have been converted to motorways (or freeways to you guys). The most famous ones are Watling Street (which ran from London to Chester) and the Fosse way (which ran from Exeter to Lincoln) linklink |
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 20, 2016 15:26:06 GMT
Brussels and Belgium remind me a little of Winchester, VA which during the War of 1861-1865 was continually fought over and lost and won by both sides. Geography dictates the location of battles and campaigns.
Regards
Dave
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Post by Beth on Sept 20, 2016 22:56:31 GMT
I totally agree about geography--I suspect that good generals also chose the correct ground to fight on--an advantage that Custer gave the NA and perhaps it was the ultimate factor on why Custer lost. I do realize that some battle are fought by chance encounters but still the person who can use the ground the best has an advantage.
It wasn't totally an accident that Waterloo was the battle place. Wellington was very familiar with the area and knew where he wanted to fight and not. He was caught unaware by the speed that Napoleon traveled but once Napoleon was on the move, Wellington just had to draw his line and wait. Napoleon allegedly had a lot of contempt for Wellington but then he put himself right into Wellington's wheel house for his most important battle.
BTW are you guys familiar with the term Waterloo teeth?
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 21, 2016 0:27:59 GMT
Beth
It is amazing what a change of attitude from Waterloo to where men gave their lives to recover dead comrades.
Regards
Dave
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Post by Beth on Sept 21, 2016 2:27:34 GMT
Waterloo was an overwhelming event when it came to dead and injured plus the army quickly moved on because even though Napoleon armies were defeated, he still was not caught. I don't think that it had dawned on armies at the time to have some sort of death detail and Waterloo was exceptional in its carnage. It was left to the locals to 'clean up the mess" and they had to do it ASAP because not only was it very unpleasant but there was a health risk. The locals really had no vested interest in digging through the carnage to identify each individual, who probably didn't even have anything in way of identification. Even if they had something of value, looters were on the field taking anything of value before those left for dead finally met their makers. There wasn't really a way to move injured people off the battlefield--any useful horse was either taken by the army or by the citizens who fled Brussels. Those injured who did receive treatment either crawled to help by themselves or had a friend that looked out for them but most serious injuries were pretty much considered fatal because there just wasn't the medical knowledge to treat injuries or sucessfully prevent infections. I know I have "The Infamous Army" by Georgette Heyer before. It is a romance but if one skips the romance part if so inclined it is one of the best descriptions of the battle and the aftermath you will ever find. Allegedly it was on the recommended reading list for Sandhurst for it's accuracy. Related link Wellington's Doctors: the British Army Medical Services in the Napoleonic Wars |
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Post by quincannon on Sept 21, 2016 4:55:44 GMT
"Waterloo" in the Sharpe series is quite good.
Waterloo gives Wellington all the press, but I think his finest victory both operationally and tactically was Salamaca.
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Post by yanmacca on Sept 21, 2016 9:30:26 GMT
Wellington himself spoke about the battle of Assaye (India 1803) as being his most notable as a field commander, probably because it was his first as major victory.
Chuck, remember the song at the end of every episode of “Sharpe” it used to change slightly with every episode, but my favourite one was at the end of Sharpe’s Eagle which went;
Here's forty shillings on the drum
To those who volunteer to come,
To 'list and fight the foe today
Over the Hills and far away.
O'er the hills and o'er the main
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey
Over the hills and far away.
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Post by quincannon on Sept 21, 2016 14:49:26 GMT
Long ago I looked up "Over The Hills and Far Away", and if memory serves the lyrics were written for the Sharpe series, but the tune itself, with other but similar lyrics, goes back several centuries. In that regard it becomes original score I suppose for Sharpe, very much like Welshman Never Yield does for Zulu, again the tune with other lyrics long predate the movie.
What makes these lyrics so memorable to me is that Over the Hills captures the essence of the regular soldier, particularly the Infantry soldier, for it is a lament, rather than the rollicking tune that would be more associated with one of the mounted arms.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on Sept 22, 2016 2:28:40 GMT
One of my favorites!
Regards
Dave
The Regular Army, Oh
(Harrington and Hart)
Three years ago, this very day, I went to Govner's Isle
To stand ferinst the cannon in true military style,
Thirteen American Dollars each month we surely get,
To carry a gun and a bayonet with a military step.
cho: There's Sergeant John McCafferty and Corp'ral Donahue
They make us march up to the crack in gallant Company Q;
The drums they roll, upon my soul, for that's the way we go
Forty miles a day on beans and hay in the Regular Army, Oh.
We had our choice of going to the army or to jail,
Or it's up the Hudson River with a cop to take a sail;
So we puckered up our courage and with bravery we did go
And we cursed the day we marched away with the Regular Army, Oh!
The captain's name was Murphy, of "dacint French descint"
Sure he knew all the holy words in the Hebrew testament;
And when he said to Hogan: "Just move your feet a foot,"
Sure, Hogan jumped a half a mile on Sergeant Riley's boot.
The best of all the officers is Second Lieutenant McDuff;
Of smoking cigarettes and sleep he never got enough.
Says the captain, "All we want of you is to go to Reveille,
And we'll let the first sergeant run the company."
There's corns upon me feet, me boy, and bunions on me toes,
And lugging a gun in the red hot sun puts freckles on me nose
And if you want a furlough to the captain you do go,
And he says, "Go to bed and wait till you're dead in the Regular
Army, Oh"
We went to Arizona for to fight the Indians there;
We were nearly caught bald-headed but they didn't get our hair
We lay among the ditches in the dirty yellow mud,
And we never saw an onion, a turnip or a spud.
We were captured by the Indians and brought ferinst the chafe
Says he, "We'll have an Irish stew," the dirty Indian thafe.
On the telegraphic wire we skipped to Mexico,
And we blessed the day we marched away from the Regular Army, Oh!
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Post by quincannon on Sept 22, 2016 5:09:49 GMT
The only two songs I can remember the 2nd Division Band playing were Marching Through Georgia, and Down From Heaven Comes Eleven. The last was the 11th Airborne Division marching song. The 2nd had a band and the 11th did not, as they were not complete as a division, activated only for test purposes. I think they were the only two tunes they knew.
Only song I know associated with the 2nd ID was the Bugout Boogie.
" The Second Division sat on a hill
with old Joe Chink gettin set for the kill.
You hear that patter of little feet.
It's the 2nd Division in full retreat.
Were bugging out.
Were moving on." |
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