Sets of Fours

[yanmacca]

Oh that reminds me it also states that each corporal had 50 rounds of .30 cal on his person.

[azranger]

When I was in Viet Nam the ROK Marines had .30 carbines. I was detached to them for a short period of time. We ate with the officers. I will never forget Kimchee. I think it came in their rations and had numbers indicating the degree of heat.

[yanmacca]

Steve, was you up-grade from .30 cal to 5.56mm, I think the US Military initiated this change around 1964-65, but knowing how slow this process would be it would surprise me if .30 ammo was still in mass use, probably for the Springfield m03 and carbines.

[quincannon]

You have the official changeover from 7.62 (M-14) to 5.56 (M-16) a little early Ian.

Originally the M-16 was only to be issued to units in country (Viet Nam). The M-14 was still the official weapons until about 1968. The M-14 had been first introduced in 1956 with the conversion of the 101st ABD to the Pentomic (ROCAD) configuration. It was supposed to be our standard weapon for many years to come, and in conjunction with NATO agreements chamber the same cartridge as all of the other NATO countries. As late as 1968 many units both active, NG, and USAR still carried the M-1 (30) along with the BAR and M-/M-2 Carbine.

My unit first received the M-14 in 1968, had it for six or seven months then converted to the M-16 in 1969 when we were reorganized under a new MTO&E the F or G series, I forget which, but I think G.

So the official changeover making the M-16 the standard weapon was probably late 1967 or sometime in 68.

[yanmacca]

Thanks for the correction Chuck, how did you find the change, did you find that the drop down from 7.62mm to 5.56mm gave you less punch at long range?.

It is rare for the US and the Soviets to have anything in common regarding military, but you both used 7.62mm ammo right through WW2;

7.62x54R (Soviets)
7.62x63 (US Army)

[quincannon]

We only started using 7.62 in 1956. We used the same 30 Cal ammo from at least 1903 until about 1968 when the M-1 and BAR were finally phased out.

All the M-14 was and all it was intended to be was a product improved M-1. The M-16 was either liked or disliked, depending upon the value you placed on the M-1/M-14. Those coming later that had never experienced the M-1/M-14 generally liked the weapon.

If I had to go into combat today I would choose the M-14 as my personal weapon, if I could get my hands on one and have a reasonable expectation  of obtaining ammunition resupply, but I would also be mighty glad that those around me were carrying the lighter weapon that has more universal potential for modern combat.

[azranger]

Jul 7, 2016 13:31:47 GMT yanmacca said:

Steve, was you up-grade from .30 cal to 5.56mm, I think the US Military initiated this change around 1964-65, but knowing how slow this process would be it would surprise me if .30 ammo was still in mass use, probably for the Springfield m03 and carbines.

First I don't consider it an upgrade. In boot camp we had the M-14 which included rifle qualifications at Camp Pendleton. It was preparation for going to Viet Nam that I was issued a M16-A1.

For the time between boot camp and staging for Viet Nam I had a select fire M-14. I only attempted full auto one time. It was not a pleasant experience. I am sure I should have learned the technique before attempting it the first time.

Regards

AZ Ranger

[yanmacca]

Chuck I thought that the.30 cal was 7.62mm?

There must be something about that lighter round given that your enemy may be wearing body armour, I will have to check the muzzle velocity to see if it is higher with the 5.56mm.

[azranger]

there are 3 cartridges

.30 Cal carbine cartridge ( almost a handgun size cartridge, in fact some hands are chambered for this round)

.30-06 rifle cartridge

7.62 (.308) rifle cartridge

Regards

AZ Ranger

[yanmacca]

Wow the lighter 5.56mm can penetrate 3mm of steel at 600m and 12mm at 100m.

[yanmacca]

Steve is the .30-06 not 7.62mm?

[quincannon]

Not Steve, but NO. It is a completely different round of ammunition.

[azranger]

Ian

Chuck is right

7.62 is the bullet diameter which is like stating .30 cal. It does not describe a particular cartridge.

The cartridges are different in length and volume.

.30 M1 carbine   --- .30 carbine ammunition [7.62x39mm]

M1 Garand        --- .30-06 ammunition  [7.62x63mm (.30 -06)]

M14                 --- 7.62   [7.62×51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) ]

[yanmacca]

Chuck you are correct, but according to the stats it was still a 7.62mm round, please see;

.30-06 (7.62x63)
7.62mm NATO (7.62x51)
5.56mm NATO (5.56x45)

My god Steve you beat me to the draw!

[azranger]

The difference Ian is in the common usage which may be loss in the translation.

.30 carbine, .30-06, 7.62

7.62 in common usage is the  M14 round