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Post by Beth on May 4, 2016 2:00:39 GMT
I think it would be helpful to have an area for Custer and Little Bighorn Myths or perhaps inaccuracies. One of the first ones that comes to mind is Custer image popularized in a painting done in 1884. This image was then used by Budweiser for decades to advertise beer starting in 1889. It has become the image that defines how people see Custer. This is close up of Custer. Notice the similarity to a still from "They Died With Their Boots On" Great images to stir the soul but a bit historical nope. I'll start with the two really obvious mistakes. 1. Custer cut his hair before the start of the Campaign. 2. The sword. Custer had no sword at LBH. He had ordered that all swords were to be left behind at Powder River. Point 3 is unprovable but sort of defies logic. It was a very hot day on June 25, 1876. The chances that Custer was wearing his signature white buckskin coat seem to be to be unlikely.
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Post by yanmacca on May 4, 2016 12:43:21 GMT
Beth if you look closely at the Budweiser painting, you will see that some of the warriors are carrying "Zulu" type shields, so the guy who painted it probably knew less about the Native Americans then I do.
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Post by yanmacca on May 4, 2016 12:52:37 GMT
Here is a few classics, the first one looks like they managed to add deep ravine as the Indians look as if they are attacking via a coulee (this is the first image I ever saw of the battle in 1967).
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Post by yanmacca on May 4, 2016 12:54:25 GMT
Here are the others;
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Post by quincannon on May 4, 2016 17:42:31 GMT
The best is Eric von Schmidt's "Here Fell Custer"
The two immediately above are not too bad, in fact better than most all the rest.
The biggest myth is that Custer conducted a defense. BUSHWA to the TENTH POWER.
A defense, defends something of value. It must be organized and integrated to call it a defense.
Remembering that all these are paintings, and it was before the day of real time overhead imagery - what do all of these paintings have in common?
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on May 4, 2016 18:30:43 GMT
The best is Eric von Schmidt's "Here Fell Custer" The two immediately above are not too bad, in fact better than most all the rest. The biggest myth is that Custer conducted a defense. BUSHWA to the TENTH POWER. A defense, defends something of value. It must be organized and integrated to call it a defense. Remembering that all these are paintings, and it was before the day of real time overhead imagery - what do all of these paintings have in common? Brave men in a defensive perimeter trying to hold their ground with their fearless leader in the thick of things. Best, David
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Post by quincannon on May 4, 2016 19:11:39 GMT
Complete disintegration, attempting to hold nothing, and there are no extra points for bravery if there is so little choice in the matter.
Good men dying, because their commander was a fool.
Their commander died like a donkey, which is what he deserves, with no honor or accolade accrued in life or thereafter. Totally unacceptable.
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Post by yanmacca on May 4, 2016 19:18:27 GMT
At least the last two got the topography right and that the headquarters and F company died on a slope. But if you want to see an over the top picture, then just look at this one;
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Post by Beth on May 4, 2016 20:03:51 GMT
The Budweiser ad was based on a painting called Custer's Last Stand by Cassilly Adams. I am having trouble finding a picture of the Adams work but there is more info here. The Budweiser ad isn't the only one who used it as the basis for an ad. linkAdams was supposed to have used actual Sioux Indians and period soldiers for his models. Perhaps it was 'enhanced' for the advertisement to bring more action and impact.
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Post by Beth on May 4, 2016 20:21:28 GMT
Here is another one that just defies the history of the battle. I'm posting the link because it has the ability to zoom in on the details.
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on May 5, 2016 0:30:03 GMT
Complete disintegration, attempting to hold nothing, and there are no extra points for bravery if there is so little choice in the matter. Good men dying, because their commander was a fool. Their commander died like a donkey, which is what he deserves, with no honor or accolade accrued in life or thereafter. Totally unacceptable. You, of course, are correct. I am thinking in terms of what the artists might have tried to portray. Fruitless effort, good men slaughtered. Overwhelming odds but a hussar is a hussar ;-). Best, David
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Post by BrevetorCoffin on May 5, 2016 0:32:20 GMT
At least the last two got the topography right and that the headquarters and F company died on a slope. But if you want to see an over the top picture, then just look at this one; View AttachmentRight out of "Custer of the West". I think this was Clair's preferred tactic for Reno keeping warriors occupied in the Big Village.
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Post by Beth on May 5, 2016 0:49:14 GMT
I keep going back to the first picture that Yan posted the one with the flag as the pinnacle of a pyramid composition. It's actually interesting to look at but somehow a bit too forced, as if the artist had a picture of LSH and had to position his combatants in relationship to were there are markers.
I find the smokey haze to be perhaps a bit to allegorical to perhaps a connection between earth and sky (or perhaps heaven). It kind of reminds me of those LBH figurines you see coming up for sale a bit. I have to admit that I am not a huge fan of that genre of western art so I can't really judge it other than to say as a dynamic picture it pretty much succeeds.
The other one though is just kind of weird or perhaps I don't care for it because of the overwhelming use of yellow, it makes me want to see if the varnish has yellowed or if it was around a lot of smokers. The other thing that strikes me about it is that Custer isn't the focus, a horse is.
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dave
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,679
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Post by dave on May 5, 2016 2:24:43 GMT
Myth Noun "a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events. " synonyms: folk tale, folk story, legend, tale, story, fable, saga, mythos, lore, folklore, mythology
"ancient Greek myths"
See all those 3 years of English 101 paid off!
George Custer was the perfect foil for the Heroic American Idol. Handsome, dashing, brave, charismatic and married to a beautiful young woman. Alas, like all heroes his clay feet were discovered along with all the cracks in his plaster suit and the truth came out as it always does. The fire of 1983 removed the last trace of Custer's glory. Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on May 5, 2016 3:29:35 GMT
I love American folklore stories and Custer just falls short. Personally I feel Custer's potential star in the American folk heroes went to Buffalo Bill Cody instead. Cody was able to harness the aura of the West that Custer had been building with his writing. Custer might have been the spark that started interest but Cody understood it and supplied it to the masses.
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