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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 11, 2020 13:28:25 GMT
Earlier I mentioned Custer was trying to restore his standing after his dust up with Grant, due to his testimony before Congress and comments to members of the press. While reading Steve's comments regarding Michael Donahue's theories and maps, and a bell went off. We have often mentioned that Custer disobeyed orders by not proceeding south to the headwaters of the Tongue, then to turn towards the LBH. In reading Michael's book "WRRR", I found that the reason Custer did not continue south was because he feared running into Crook, and "losing his command seniority by running into Crook." So, if that is true he, Custer willfully disobeyed his orders.
Regards, Tom
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Aug 12, 2020 15:31:15 GMT
Tom
I think that is consistent with his actions. My objection is that Custer should have at least sent scouts out up the Rosebud. The route CH took to the Rosebud follows the SFRC travel corridor. I drove in from the Kirby Saloon side and took a road that fit the description of CH travel. It is a natural travel corridor with series of open meadows. I finally can to a road that looked like where you could turn and go back toward Reno Creek. The name of the road is Su Road which is the same name used on SFRC. So I am reasonably sure it is a good route. I think it hits the private property that a few year back I went with Chip to one of the 1874 battle sites. I continued west on the road and came out at Lodge Grass. It is a Covid hot spot so I got on the highway and continued north to Garryowen.
Steve
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 12, 2020 16:54:24 GMT
I hope you were not partaking at the Kirby Saloon prior to taking that little jaunt, you are after all a law enforcement officer, not just a Game Warden!
Regards, Tom
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azranger
Brigadier General
Ranger
Posts: 1,824
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Post by azranger on Aug 13, 2020 1:13:12 GMT
I hope you were not partaking at the Kirby Saloon prior to taking that little jaunt, you are after all a law enforcement officer, not just a Game Warden! Regards, Tom The last time I was there the Sheriff's Office was looking for a body. They found blood but no body. The blood trail head toward the Cheyenne reservation. I just got reminded of my status when I was working on some State Trooper firearms for their annual inspection. One of them reminded me of some days in the past on Whiskey Row in Prescott. One of the officers there worked for us and transfered to make more money. He was the only one there that would qualify to move to our agency since he had a degree. I think we all like our jobs but mine has more toys and is more fun. I shared the just the Game Warden comment without giving credit to who made the statement. They officer laughed and said some things that shall remain in that room. Regards Steve
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Post by yanmacca on Aug 13, 2020 10:06:06 GMT
Tom, I think that Custer had already made up his mind on what type of campaign he was going to fight, he refused the extra companies of cavalry and the slow-moving gatling guns, which points to the idea that he wanted this to be his show. He even brought along a new paper man for gods sake, to write down what he saw and hopefully post this story of a brave Custer battling against the odds.
Custer was fully aware of his orders and was briefed by his scouts all through the journey, but he still kept focusing on destroying this village and if possible, catching it intact, otherwise he wouldn’t have thrown all his eggs in one basket.
Here is a new one, Was Benteen’s battalion ever attached to either Custer or Reno as it marched after Custer had made his last officers call, just asking because if he hadn’t sent Benteen off east, which battalion would he have marched with, would he be under Reno’s command in the valley of under Custer’s command as it went over the bluffs.
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 13, 2020 14:04:09 GMT
Ian, let me give you what I have, it comes from Benteen' notes and letters. One must spend his retirement money on something. This could get windy. This portion begins from the overnight march.
"The battalion organization was made after we had marched about four hours. I think at the first halt an orderly came to me with instructions for the officers to assemble. General Custer told us that he had just come down from the mountain; that he had been told by the scouts that they could see a village—ponies, tepees and smoke. He gave it to us as his belief that there were no Indians there; that he had looked through his glasses and could not see any and did not think there were any there.[*] “Now, in 1875, I had a very similar experience with Indians in Dakota, and as the statements of the Indians then were absolutely confirmed by what was afterwards proved, I was strong in the belief that the Crow Indians only reported what was shown them by their superior keenness of vision, and that the hostile village was where they located it; but as no opinions were asked for, none were given."
“The column then advanced, I should think a mile or so, and the officers were summoned to General Custer. On arrival of all, General Custer desired to know whether the requirements of a regimental order which were issued on the Yellowstone River, were being carried out, which order was, to the effect, that every troop of the regiment should have a non-commissioned officer and six men on duty with the pack-train, in immediate charge of the pack mules of each troop, and that one hundred rounds of carbine ammunition and twenty-four rounds of pistol ammunition should be issued to each trooper; that the officer who first notified him that these requirements were being observed, should have the advance of the regiment for his troop. I so reported, and was given the advance."
"We moved then probably eight miles, and halted in a kind of valley surrounded by high hills, and there the division into battalions was made. I received three companies, and was sent to the left to a line of bluffs. I don’t know how many battalions, or who was put in command. It was not told to me at all. My orders were to proceed out to a line of bluffs about four or five miles away; to pitch into anything I came across, and to send back word to General Custer at once if I came across anything. “I had gone about a mile when I received instructions through the chief trumpeter that if I found nothing before reaching the first line of bluffs, to go on to the second line of bluffs, with the same instructions. “I had gone I suppose a mile further when I received orders through the sergeant-major that if I saw nothing from the second line of bluffs, then to go into the valley. The angle of my march to the route of the regiment was about forty-five degrees, a left oblique. The pack-train, at the first halt, was close up. I don’t know where it was at the second halt, but I suppose close to the rear."
Since I have the notes and letters for the battle, I will post some other stuff later and elsewhere. I hope the above helps.
Regards, Tom
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Post by deadwoodgultch on Aug 13, 2020 14:48:45 GMT
A bit of follow up, Ian. This too from Benteen.
"When I received my order from Custer to separate myself from the command, I had no instructions to unite at any time with Reno or anyone else. There was no plan at all. My orders were Valley hunting, ad infinitum’ The reason I returned was because I thought I would be needed at the ridge. I acted entirely upon my own judgment. I was separated from Reno fifteen miles when at the greatest distance."
"When I left I did not know Reno had a command. The division been made yet, and I don’t think Reno knew anything about it at the time I left. When I passed, he asked me where I was going, and I told him I was going to the left, with instructions to pitch into anything I came across. The next time I saw Reno was on the hill."
Regards, Tom
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