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Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 24, 2017 22:47:56 GMT
You are correct Chuck, cattle have encroached to the west, and that is where the wood was, as well as to the north west. The Bozeman was to the east and nothing but scrub pine until Wolf Mtns. There are creases in the terrain for concealment, however.
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Post by sgttyree on Jul 25, 2017 2:35:59 GMT
The Fetterman site looks empty of cover now but it occurs to me that they were cutting lots of wood. Could there have been substantial cover for the warriors at that time...has the landscape been altered that much? I don't think so, Mac. The woodcutting area was known as The Pinery and it was on Little Piney Creek closer to the east slope of the Bighorn Mountains. That area is is on the other side of Lodge Trail Ridge from the Fetterman site. Lodge Trail Ridge: Ft. Phil Kearny was in service from 1866 - 1868 and as far as I know, The Pinery was the only area where wood was cut in any big way during that time. They eventually had a sawmill set up there. My understanding is that the natives were hiding in some deep gullys when 10 warriors, one of them a young Crazy Horse, led Fetterman into the ambush. Col. Carrignton had given Fetterman orders not to go past Lodge Trail Ridge.
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Post by sgttyree on Jul 25, 2017 2:44:23 GMT
Interesting side story. After the Fetterman Fight, Col. Carrington had Ft. Phil Kearny on what you might call DEFCON ONE for that time and place. If the fort was under attack, women and children were to hide in the powder magazine. If the fort was being overrun, Carrington was going to blow the magazine with the women and children still inside and go up with it himself. Carrington intended that no white women and children were to fall into native hands.
The revisionist historical viewpoints that are so popular today on universities would be appalled at this, no doubt. But Carrington himself did not plan to survive the fort being overrun.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 25, 2017 12:08:02 GMT
Which raises the question as to why women and children were there in the first place?
I hate distractions like this, and by distractions, what I mean is a factor introduced, that requires attention and decision making, that not only allow, but force, the commander to take his eye off of the tactical ball, when there is absolutely no need to do so.
At Phil Kearny it was the womenfolk and little kiddies that forced Carrington to plan all his options around the eventuality that he must not let the women and children fall into enemy hands. At LBH it was those infernal pack trains that must be covered, thereby reducing maneuver opportunities and options.
Next time someone tells you that this was a professional army out there fighting Indians, tell them to go to any dictionary and look up the meaning of professional.
Kevin I am having a difficult time orienting that photo. Was this taken from near the road that leads up the ridge to the parking lot?
It has been many years since I have been there but I remember a road generally leading upward from the FPK area, ending at a parking lot, near a monument, generally facing north. To my right (east) the land form descended toward I90 in the distance. To my left were a good number of ravines and gullies, where you could have hidden a bunch of Indians, and they contained what appeared to be profile cut out of mounted Indians , I suppose indicating ambush positions. I was impressed by how the ambush was set up, very professional. Further to my north past the monument was a trail of sorts that led down to another Army position.
Did I dream this or is the pretty much accurate? If so where are we in this picture?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 14:05:38 GMT
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Post by sgttyree on Jul 25, 2017 17:21:15 GMT
QC,
That shot looks southwest from the hill to Lost Trail Ridge. Across the ridge to the west was The Pinery.
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Post by Beth on Jul 25, 2017 22:50:21 GMT
I often think that justice for idiots like Fetterman and Custer would be to have them be captured during these fiascos without a hair on the head harmed or out of place, then return them still unharmed to their commanders. Death is insufficient punishment for their stupidity, in fact it is too easy. Adequate retribution would be being forced to live to a ripe old age being scorned by those they once served. We all love to think that people 'get what it owed to them' but in reality do you think that Fetterman and especially Custer would have felt anything from being shamed? Some people just are beyond caring for anything but themselves which is what makes them so dangerous when they are in charge of other lives.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 26, 2017 1:25:27 GMT
Yes I do.
They would be in my opinion just like celebrities that lose their luster. Some, the intelligent ones go on to something different and don't look back. Others,like these two,their fame is all they have. Being shunned by people in the same profession would be worse to them than the death from a thousand cuts.
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