|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 21, 2017 12:47:05 GMT
Will, you could continue to compare commanders. Mackenzie, Merritt, Crook, Miles, Mills, Forsythe, and even The North brothers were better managers a paid attention to detail. All made sure that staff were all on the same page. You dealt with it, everyone knew there job, knew where support would come from, and fall back positions. You listened to intelligence/scouts and followed procedures.
Regards, Tom
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 21, 2017 12:49:01 GMT
The only other Commander of the time, who was nearly as sloppy was Howard in chasing the Nez Perce.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 21, 2017 15:40:10 GMT
I believe they were the Big Horn Mountains, not Bull Run.
As to U S rotation of units, I am not sure that any significant inferences can be drawn from that. It is true that the majority of the units involved in the were not the same in 76 as they were in 66-67, but the passage of time, and the fact that the Army withdrew from this area in question under the provisions of the Treaty of 67, surely would have made the experience of 66-67 have limited value in 76.
The 4th Cavalry, as is repeatedly mentioned here was the most successful with regard to their overall operations. Unlike most of the Army though, they stayed in West Texas for nearly ten years, engaged with the same people, the Comanche and Kiowa. Engaging the Sioux and Cheyenne when they went north probably presented a few problems for them, but their experience in adaptation served them well.
The 7th Cavalry at LBH was roughly the same as the 90th Infantry Division in Normandy, insufficient, and meaningless-unfocused training, and inept commanders. The 90th solved their problems, but not without additional turmoil. I am not sure if the 7th ever did, until the Admiralty Islands.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 22, 2017 17:01:12 GMT
Kevin: When you visited the Hayfield, did you get to nearby Fort C. F. Smith?
I understand that there is not much there but foundations.
|
|
|
Post by sgttyree on Jul 22, 2017 18:33:30 GMT
No, I spent the better part of a day at Ft Phil Kearny, Fetterman, Wagon Box, and Hayfield. Then drove to Billings for the night and went to LBH the next morning.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 22, 2017 19:11:25 GMT
What amazed me about the Fetterman area was being able to see all the way down to Interstate 90 and beyond.
How that man ever got snookered into fighting there is one of those things that defies understanding.
|
|
|
Post by deadwoodgultch on Jul 22, 2017 22:36:33 GMT
He should have take advantage of the Jersey walls along I-90. All kidding aside you can still see the wagon ruts of the Bozeman Trail nearly adjacent to the battlefield.
|
|
|
Post by sgttyree on Jul 22, 2017 23:49:21 GMT
I noticed that. It's amazing they are still there in a few places. Faint, but discernible.
|
|
|
Post by sgttyree on Jul 22, 2017 23:54:21 GMT
How that man ever got snookered into fighting there is one of those things that defies understanding. He should have listened to his commander's instructions and not gone beyond the ridge. But he thought he could ride through the whole Sioux Nation with 80 men. Not quite.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 23, 2017 22:14:25 GMT
I often think that justice for idiots like Fetterman and Custer would be to have them be captured during these fiascos without a hair on the head harmed or out of place, then return them still unharmed to their commanders. Death is insufficient punishment for their stupidity, in fact it is too easy. Adequate retribution would be being forced to live to a ripe old age being scorned by those they once served.
|
|
|
Post by sgttyree on Jul 24, 2017 1:48:34 GMT
Agreed. And in Fetterman's case, Carrington, while perhaps not having an inspirational demeanor or a great air of persona, seems to have been a solid and sensible commander. Fetterman should have listened.
|
|
mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
|
Post by mac on Jul 24, 2017 4:59:00 GMT
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 24, 2017 15:18:02 GMT
That story has major errors that I detected and as such I do not know how much of an authority it can be considered.
The errors I detected are at the beginning and deal with the 18th Infantry and the 27th Infantry, there by giving me the impression that the author, with regards to that matter alone did not know Bushwa from boxer shorts.
The reorganization of the Infantry in the U S Army in 1866 and then again in 1869 is important to the narrative of the west. It is also a long post. I do not know if it would be better to post it on this thread or under the U s Army thread. I would not mention it if I did not think it important to understand.
|
|
mac
Brigadier General
Posts: 1,790
|
Post by mac on Jul 24, 2017 21:58:39 GMT
QC Probably more accessible to people in the US Army thread with that reference here but up to you. Perhaps do it once and paste it in the other..whatever you think.
Re the topic here:
The Fetterman site looks empty of cover now but it occurs to me that they were cutting lots of wood. Could there have been substantial cover for the warriors at that time...has the landscape been altered that much? Cheers
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jul 24, 2017 22:37:29 GMT
Kevin would probably know more being from Wyoming, but the lay of that land says to me the open prairie east of that site was pretty much as it is today, and west of it is where the pine forests start.
That seems consistent with the whole route I25 - I90 from Casper to Sheridan.
I think the Fetterman fight occurred near the natural boundary of prairie and forest. My impression only.
|
|